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The Whole Story

By 31.10.202448 Comments

As many of you now know, on October 1st we released Scenic 4, featuring a new map provider and redesigned UI. As you probably also know, Scenic 4 still has some bugs, and is missing some features. That sucks.

You might wonder why I didn’t push back the release until these issues were resolved and the truth is we were forced into the move much faster than we’d wanted. I’ve previously hinted at why this was in the Scenic 4 FAQs. But I wanted to take time now to share the full story behind this.

It all started around 4 years ago when our Scenic 2 map provider, Skobbler, went out of business. After vetting several alternatives, I chose HERE maps who, at that time, had a very mature framework. They were an established and competitive provider who I felt would be able to support our community’s needs well into the future. 

So, I chose HERE, updated Scenic for their framework, and thus Scenic 3 was born. 

 * Migrating to a new map provider is a big job. The map framework doesn’t just contain the maps themselves but also the route calculation algorithms and search processes. It’s basically the brain of the entire app. So in terms of impact and complexity, migration is comparable to brain surgery. With development and testing, it takes a minimum of eight months, but ideally we’d want up to a year to allow for adequate, real-world beta testing.

Just after Scenic 3 was released, I discovered that HERE maps was decommissioning the framework that I’d just spent a year migrating to. From a coding perspective, the new framework would be distinctly different.

As you can imagine, I wasn’t thrilled about this news. I’d now have to spend another year migrating to the new framework, but I decided to persevere because the old framework had served our community well and Scenic 3.5 emerged from that second migration.

However, during and after that migration, I found, and you reported, that their new framework had some problems. Among other things, the maps lacked detail, some countries were no longer available, and there were discrepancies between the offline and online calculations, making it difficult to plan routes reliably and consistently.

I reported these issues to HERE and the situation gradually improved, but it became clear to me that HERE maps saw Scenic as, to be blunt: small fry. Our app, our community, and our needs were not being prioritized. I got the feeling that motorcycle navigation did not get the focus it needed.

Because of this, I started browsing for other providers and found one that I really liked. The test results were great, the base was solid, and I started considering moving Scenic away from HERE maps. Little did I know that this choice would be made for me in the very near future.

Around that same time – March/April this year – HERE maps underwent some internal restructuring, and my account management was passed on to a third party, who would be responsible for my new contract, with the then-current one ending in June.

Here is where it gets “spicy”.

Without going into details, they basically told me that the old contract structure and prices could no longer be applied to a new contract. The new contract would essentially multiply Scenic’s monthly cost 25 times. That is not a typo. To illustrate this change, let’s suppose I had previously paid HERE maps 5,000 USD per month with the old contract; in the new contract, that would balloon to 125,000 USD and bankrupt Scenic in the first month.

I was shocked by this revelation and hardly able to imagine that this was even legal. Worse still, they only informed me of the change three months before contract-end, leaving me no time to select another provider and migrate Scenic. 

Of course, I escalated my concerns within the HERE organization, and over the following weeks, there were email exchanges, discussions, and meetings to determine a suitable path forward. We worked for a long time to try to find a solution, our prime focus being to extend our runway and give ourselves time to prepare, stopping any disruption coming to you.

Many meetings, arguments, and escalations later, HERE Maps were only able to offer a three-month extension on our contract – until the end of September. This gave me just five months to migrate to a new provider.

I had many sleepless nights, imagining that this might even be the end of Scenic, our community, my dream, and livelihood, that I might not be able to provide for my family anymore, and so on. I even sought legal counsel, but unfortunately, there was no recourse for HERE’s actions.

I’m only glad that I’d already found a map provider and tried to take HERE’s acceleration of the process as a blessing in disguise. We were able to push the change to the low season and, more importantly, didn’t want to let you all down in the long run. We decided to press forward.

In the past five months, I’ve worked non-stop to get Scenic 4 as ready as I could before October 1st. We did a lot, really a lot, to prepare for this, but had to release Scenic 4, more or less as an open beta, in the off-season. We got as many bugs squashed before full release as we could but, as you’ve seen, some still remain. The good news is that we’re still working round the clock, and Scenic 4 is getting better and more complete every week. It’s already much more stable than at launch, and before Christmas, most key features will be ready too. 

By the start of the next motorcycle season (in the northern hemisphere), it will be fully complete and ready for your next adventure. You can read more about the high-level timelines here in the Scenic 4 FAQs. We’re building some truly incredible features on this new platform too, which I don’t want to jynx by putting here!

I’m sharing this story with you to help you understand why the Scenic 4 release wasn’t as smooth as we wanted and why we’re facing the challenges we are now. With that, I want you to know that no one feels the urgency and necessity for improvement more than me, to get Scenic back to the level you’ve come to expect.

We’ve got some huge things coming up. This is a new era for Scenic and for adventurers in general. Watch this space.

Thank you for reading, and if you have any questions, leave a message on the forum, or send me a direct email through the button at the bottom of the help page.

Guido

P.S. ANDROID
The Android version has also been affected by this. After spending many hours and a lot of money on the development, Scenic Android (with the HERE maps framework) was unbelievably close to being released in the Google Play store. Now, as with the iOS version, the Android developers need to migrate Scenic to the new map framework. Because Scenic has not been released yet on Android, we are taking some more time to ensure this is done smoothly.

 

Guido

Guido

Founder and Developer of Scenic

48 Comments

  • Stephan says:

    Dear Guido, thank you very much for your tireless efforts. I am a big Scenic fan.
    Sincerely, Stephan

  • Phil says:

    I bet your exhausted with all the stress and development hours, Its turning into a great app again thanks to your efforts.
    It does make to wonder why they are so keen to work with MRA though…….

  • rschenkels says:

    Looking at the improvements between v4.0.0 and v4.0.4, it shows you are on the right track.
    Your perseverance is unmatched, you will get there, and the community is supporting you.

    The app is amazing !

    Ron

  • Scott2wheels says:

    Thanks for your continued efforts Guido.
    Big fan using Scenic in my motorcycle tour operations and have no doubts the fine tuning of V4 will be accomplished and provide us an even better experience.
    Well done and hang in !

  • Martin says:

    Thanks for updating us on the Scenic/HERE woes.

    Question – which other apps, other than Garmin and its Zumo products, use the HERE mapping system?

    • Joe says:

      MyRouteApp also uses HERE. I wasn’t as impressed with it as I was with Scenic.

    • Marius says:

      Late to the party, but HERE is used in the Ford Sync4 navigation. At least in my car. Comparing the navigation in car, on the HERE web page and other apps using HERE they all have the same annoying routing errors. Good thing it was replaced!

  • Joe says:

    Considering the shaky experiences you have had in choosing mapping providers, why should you or anyone believe your latest choice of mapping provider will not also be problematic? Who is the new provider?

    I’d like some assurance that this isn’t going to happen (to you, as much as to me) again, in a couple of years, as seems to be the pattern.

    • Guido says:

      It would be great if we could get an assurance like that from a supplier. What would this look like to you?

      • Nicolas ASPER says:

        Thanks for sharing Guido it’s Nice to have the explanations and IT Will five us patience, keep strong and go on With debugging our beloved Scenic!

    • OldNNtheway says:

      …..on which planet do you need maps???

  • Camdenlake says:

    Very upfront. I encountered many issues with the initial release due to it coming just as I left for a big trip. Responses were quick and I now understand better what was going on. I figured what some of it was. Thank you.

  • Gerd Hellmich says:

    Hallo Guido,
    ich bin sicher, dass sich die Geduld der Anwender lohnen wird. Bei allem Frust über die bisherigen Kartenanbieter, ist eine klare Linie bei der Weiterentwicklung zu erkennen und ich freue mich auf die endgültige App, auch wenn es noch etwas dauern wird.
    Gruß Gerd

  • Ruben says:

    Keep up the good work👍. Respect for the work so far.

  • Matthew Smith says:

    Guido,
    I appreciate Scenic and your tireless efforts to bring the best mc navigation tool back to its original grandeur and beyond! Thank you for sharing the story. It makes it that much easier to be patient!

  • Karlchen says:

    Hallo Guido,

    Besten Dank für diese Worte. So ungefähr habe ich mir das auch vorgestellt.
    Ich bin sicher das ab den nächsten Frühjahr alles wieder perfekt laufen wird.
    Kannst Du Mittlerweile auch schon einen ungefähren Zeitpunkt nennen wann 3D laufen wird?
    Hier hast Du ja noch keinen Termin nennen können.

    Mach bitte weiter wie bis hier hin.
    Karlchen

  • Adrian Smith says:

    Thank you for sharing the explanation and sorry to hear this has affected you so personally. You’ll get there soon Guido. Ignore all the negative comments on the forums as all those people will soon be back praising Scenic as the BEST motorcycle Nav app out there once you have got all the migration teething problems ironed out. Best wishes, Adrian

  • Michael Snowden says:

    Guido, I’m probably one of your earlier subscribers. I retired from motorcycling three years ago, but I’m using Scenic more than ever to plan & navigate routes for boondock-oriented bicycling and trailer camping trips. The App works just as well in these domains as it did for my moto rides. Sorry to hear about the stress you endured, but I agree the forced change may have been a blessing in disguise. The new maps are visually superior with excellent detail. And the new features make a great app even better! Keep up the steller work and vielen dank for always being bone-honest with your subscribers!

  • Niko Paris says:

    Scenic is just wonderfull !
    The period you went through is a nightmare.

    I’m sure most of the users would join me to deaply thank you for not having given up .
    We love your App, we trust you and will support you as long as you need !

    Most important : take care !

  • Helge says:

    Hi Guido,

    Thanks a lot for the very transparent explanation. At first I was eager to try out the big update to version 4 and shortly afterwards I was really pissed after realizing that it was not possible anymore to use all the POI and track folders I created to plan new routes like in version 3.
    I am really looking forward to having the same functionality (or more) as before. Planning routes with Scenic (3) was by far the best way to do it. Big thumbs up.
    Thank you for your big effort. Can’t wait to see Scenic 4 grow 🙂

    Helge

  • Parrish Jones says:

    Thanks Guido for this honest testimony. I can’t imagine your anxiety over this issue. It’s hard enough to keep. up with things when there are no major issues. Then there are issues. I personally like the new scenic. I’m planning a trip from Florida to California to Alaska and back next June and July. I’ve been preparing maps for each day that include POIs. I’ve been learning a lot about the app. The detail of the maps is so incredibly better that our satisfaction level has to rise.

  • Dan says:

    A few years back, Google did a very similar pricing increase (20x) to the small online app developers that were using Goog’s Mapping API’s. That required most of them to make the same types of changes Guido has had to make or close up shop. I was never a fan of HERE maps when I tested and used Garmin devices but when the VW/Mercedes-Benz owners group purchased HERE I knew I was done with them.

    I’ve been a Nav App and digital Maps user/evaluator for almost 20yrs now. For the past five years I’ve been using another Nav App, for my world moto travels, that uses the same OSM Maps/Nav-engine platform – I think it is the best in the business. Scenic v4 is now my go to Nav App for my world travels and I’m looking forward to the upcoming features.

  • Anonymous says:

    Bedankt Guido voor je uitleg,

    Wat een horrorverhaal en wat fijn dat je doorgezet hebt en ons niet in de problemen wilde brengen. Ik hoop niet dat je gezondheid en levensgeluk eronder hebben geleden.
    Het is weer even, de nieuwe versie, maar het kaartmateriaal ziet er goed uit, alle lof en waardering. Wat ik direct miste is de instelling ‘vermijd onverharde wegen’. Ik heb er echter alle vertrouwen in dat ook dit helemaal goed komt. Met mijn pensioen in het vooruitzicht kan ik bijna niet wachten op volgend jaar, heerlijk rijden, fietsen en wandelen met deze onvolbaade Scenic-app.

    Veel succes en mijn hartelijke dank voor je werk,
    Jan ten Klooster

  • Marcus says:

    Hello Guido, many thanks for the insides and the background to the story. Absolutely great achievement to realize this project in such a short time. I am a big fan of Senic and believe and hope that I will be able to use this program for my motorcycle tours for a long time to come. Thumbs up for your commitment. At the same time, I think Here’s business practices are terrible and I will avoid products based on this map provider in future.
    Greetings Marcus

  • Filip Lauwers says:

    Hey Guido
    Tof dat je het verhaal achter de migratie gebracht hebt. Dat het even moeilijk was, was duidelijk, maar omwille van de goede communicatie was dit op zich geen probleem. Ja, er waren heel wat problemen bij de start van Scenic 4, maar gezien je snelle responses in het verleden en oplossend vermogen maakte ik me er geen zorgen om en ergerde de problemen me ook niet. Komt goed, zei ik tegen m’n vrouw toen plots alles vast liep. 😄 En inderdaad, het kwam goed en het wordt steeds beter!! Ik blijf Scenic aanraden als de beste motor-app! Bedankt voor je tomeloze inzet! 👍🏻

  • Jörg says:

    Hey Guido, I feel some kind of bad about the stress you have for our fun. Thanks for sharing the whole story. At the end it feels much better to support you than a large company, even if the App isn‘t perfect (yet). Cheers Joerg (Joka)

  • Phil Dibb says:

    Hi Guido

    Many thanks for that detailed explanation.
    Best of luck developing scenic with the new maps. What you’ve achieved in the time available is extraordinary.
    Keep up the amazingly good work!

    Phil (UK)

  • Chorge says:

    Hey Guido.

    You are honest, open with mistakes and give so much to make Scenic the best navigation app. Thank you for the transparent presentation of how the challenges in V4 came about. Your customers appreciate this transparency and, more importantly, they tell their friends and acquaintances about it.

    That’s why the Scenic community will emerge stronger from this disruption and grow stronger than ever before!!!

  • Normand Despins says:

    Now I understand why you had no time to develop the new map on Scenic 4. Take your time, here in Canada, motorcycle season start in late April.

  • BigFella says:

    Hi Guido
    Thanks for your perseverance with V4 of the app. I’m a long time user and love Scenic.
    I was unfortunately in the middle of a planned trip when we had to switch over to V4 and encountered a few problems.
    I was very impressed on how quickly you responded directly to my email enquiries and even more so now knowing the pressure you were under at the time.
    Keep up the good work as I look forward to using Scenic as my navagtion app for years to come.
    Cheers Tim

  • Ferry says:

    Hi Guido,

    Thank you for sharing this one, really appreciated to get some insights in the struggles you’re facing.

    Ferry

  • Rob Lee says:

    Hi Guido

    That’s quite a rollercoaster ride. You know they say if it doesn’t break you it makes you stronger.
    Thanks for all the hard work you have had to put in to support Scenic. It’s appreciated at least by my small community that uses it.
    We already know you will get there and are happy to live with a few bugs on the journey. Bit like riding in summer !

    Rob

  • Alex says:

    Hi Guido,
    I’m happy about the updated Version 4.x although there are some minor bugs. It’s such an improvement.
    Thanks for the great job to keep Scenic running
    Alex

  • Melbara says:

    Hello Guido,

    Thanks for the insight to all the problems you have faced!
    Just to say, I have just been in the USA for 2 weeks and used Scenic with no actual problems.
    Everything that was not perfect or did not work could be delt with in some way or other, but there wasn’t much that didn’t work.
    Your ongoing work to get Scenic back to what it was and better, is much appreciated.
    I still think this app is one of the best even if it’s not yet perfect, especially because of you, bacause you inform, explain, answer and fix things in a way no other app does.

    Thank you Guido

    Melbara

  • Christiaan Carelsberg says:

    Hi Guido,

    Only support from my side! Love the open and clear communication.

  • Rich Angstadt says:

    Hi Guido,
    Sorry to hear about being tossed aside by HERE. I only recently started using Scenic, but it has solved nearly every problem I’ve had with other mapping apps over the last three years and I am thrilled that I found it. I also have not experienced any issues in the past month. Appreciate the update on the issues; between the functionality and open communication I believe you are building a very loyal community I am excited to be a part of. Appreciate the hard work.

  • Rubenzucker Gerald says:

    Ich bin ein Fan von scenic und und gebe das Produkt nicht auf. Viel Glück den Beteiligten!!

  • Felix says:

    Thank you Guido for your ongoing work and open communication!

  • Matt says:

    This app sucks now. Sorry you’re having to deal with everything. Any time line on when it might not suck? Or can we revert to an old version?

  • JJB says:

    Wat betreft de reden van de wijzigingen is het heel vervelend dat dit plaats vind.

    Maar voor mij draait het om het gebruik van de app en de reden dat ik voor Scenic had gekozen.

    Het plannen van routes en hiermee het voorbereiden op de lente en zomerritten.
    Met de kaart die nu in de app zit is het een drama en voor mij slecht om de route te plannen.

    Komt de moglijkheid van de satellite kaart terug en zo ja binnen welke termijn?

  • Philip M says:

    Hi Guido, thanks for sharing !
    I discovered Scenic only a couple of months ago and signed on for a month to see how it could answer my griefs with BMW navigation devices.
    Loved it instantly, especially the customization that is definitely a dream for bikers.
    Then Scenic 4 arrived and I admit I was afraid for a while, having many of the appreciated features going missing. But when seeing the positive evolutions, the clear and open communication and feeling your love for the app, I still switched over to the yearly subscription instantly. Did not regret that for a minute, confident the app will be restored to it’s former glory (and better, given the steady flow of improvements).

    Congrats on your work, thanks for your efforts and keep thing thing going !

    Love,
    Philip

  • John Grogan says:

    I can’t find rides I saved in the last month. I can see that my last ride was 12Dec2024 but it’s not in any folder. I’m riding again on Monday so I’ll see what happens then.
    Regards
    John

  • Daffy says:

    Hi Guido,

    I have been studying which app to get for next year, and this week I chose Scenic, for 2 reasons: the first is because it’s simply a very good product already and seeing your commitment to deliver more features, I don’t doubt it will become even better. The second is to actively support a team trying to get out in best possible way of a deal that turned bad for the sake of profits.
    Therefore I wish you and your family a 2025 year filled with happiness.

  • Guido says:

    Thank you all for your support and trust in Scenic throughout this year. It’s very much appreciated. Happy Holidays to all of you.

  • Chris says:

    Hey Guido,
    Danke für die klärenden Worte!
    Ich persönlich hoffe es wird Bad wieder besser funktionieren und auch wieder von der Oberfläche angepasst. Mir persönlich stört es das viel unnötig angezeigt wird wie zum Beispiel die Berg Zeichen^ „^“.
    Was mich aber am meisten „Wahnsinnig“ macht ist das wenn ich eine Route bearbeite das die Route nachher in dem Favoriten Ordner ist und nicht in meinen angelegten dafür und ich duzende mal herum speichern muss das die Route wieder im richtigen Ordner ist.
    Bitte schaut euch an wieso das so ist!

  • RickB says:

    Thanks Guido for all your perseverance and loyalty to we users. Don’t see service and devotion like yours very often.

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