Possible Improvements
Quote from Hoya95 on 29.04.2024, 21:36Pretty new to scenic. I've watched the scenic video (admittedly on 2x speed) and played around a bit with the app. Generally speaking, really impressed and appreciating the app. I've taken enough trips to have started running into some challenges that I wanted to put down here to see if others are having the same problems and if there are suggested workarounds (or hey, maybe at 2x speed I missed something that already exists).
btw… anyone else not having the cursor show in the form new topic post? text selection isn't showing either… makes writing this post a bit of an adventure but this is very likely a "me local" issue since I pasted some text in from Mac Notes.
Navigation
Problems
(1) Scenic isn't scrolling the map in time to keep up with the ride. The voice navigation is on time and very helpful; however, when I'm approaching turns, it is too far behind for me to see exactly "which upcoming right turn" to take; I don’t want to have to constantly try and read the street signs.Opportunity/Enhancements
(1) Road Names + Numbers: Scenic isn’t showing the Number + Name of roads. For example, if a road is both Highway 117 and called “Great Road”, it is only showing “Great Road”. However, most (but of course not all, because hey, when is anything that simple) all road signs says “117 2nd Right”. I’d prefer it to show/say “Hwy 177 - Great Road”. I can see in Route Planning that Scenic has the information necessary.
(2) Upcoming Turns
Any reasonable way to visibly/audibly indicate that a turn will be in NN lefts/rights can greatly simplify riding. I almost always glance at the GPS and mentally try to figure out … “OK, I need to turn right on the 3rd street” It is just too difficult / distracting in many situations to try and find the street sign and then read the name. Sometimes the distance helps (i.e. turn in 100ft) but often times, it isn’t reliable — either the GPS is trailing a bit too much the current location, or there are too many possibilities (i.e. side streets) in quick succession so you don’t trust the distance at all.Route Planning
Problems
(1) Street names / numbers are a little hard to read
Request: an option to increase the quick readability of at least all major street names & numbers (bold? bigger font size? don’t know what would work best, but something that makes planning faster/easier when you are visually scanning the map.Recorded Routes
Problems
(1) Street names / numbers are really hard to read under the colored trail line. Request: would it be possible to have just the textual list of the route taken included (in addition) on the screen? It would make it much easier for me to communicate to people the route that I took. When you are sharing for a future use/discussion, it is difficult right now to summarize the route taken and it is painful to try and read it on the map and scroll through the whole thing.
Pretty new to scenic. I've watched the scenic video (admittedly on 2x speed) and played around a bit with the app. Generally speaking, really impressed and appreciating the app. I've taken enough trips to have started running into some challenges that I wanted to put down here to see if others are having the same problems and if there are suggested workarounds (or hey, maybe at 2x speed I missed something that already exists).
btw… anyone else not having the cursor show in the form new topic post? text selection isn't showing either… makes writing this post a bit of an adventure but this is very likely a "me local" issue since I pasted some text in from Mac Notes.
Navigation
Problems
(1) Scenic isn't scrolling the map in time to keep up with the ride. The voice navigation is on time and very helpful; however, when I'm approaching turns, it is too far behind for me to see exactly "which upcoming right turn" to take; I don’t want to have to constantly try and read the street signs.
Opportunity/Enhancements
(1) Road Names + Numbers: Scenic isn’t showing the Number + Name of roads. For example, if a road is both Highway 117 and called “Great Road”, it is only showing “Great Road”. However, most (but of course not all, because hey, when is anything that simple) all road signs says “117 2nd Right”. I’d prefer it to show/say “Hwy 177 - Great Road”. I can see in Route Planning that Scenic has the information necessary.
(2) Upcoming Turns
Any reasonable way to visibly/audibly indicate that a turn will be in NN lefts/rights can greatly simplify riding. I almost always glance at the GPS and mentally try to figure out … “OK, I need to turn right on the 3rd street” It is just too difficult / distracting in many situations to try and find the street sign and then read the name. Sometimes the distance helps (i.e. turn in 100ft) but often times, it isn’t reliable — either the GPS is trailing a bit too much the current location, or there are too many possibilities (i.e. side streets) in quick succession so you don’t trust the distance at all.
Route Planning
Problems
(1) Street names / numbers are a little hard to read
Request: an option to increase the quick readability of at least all major street names & numbers (bold? bigger font size? don’t know what would work best, but something that makes planning faster/easier when you are visually scanning the map.
Recorded Routes
Problems
(1) Street names / numbers are really hard to read under the colored trail line.
Request: would it be possible to have just the textual list of the route taken included (in addition) on the screen? It would make it much easier for me to communicate to people the route that I took. When you are sharing for a future use/discussion, it is difficult right now to summarize the route taken and it is painful to try and read it on the map and scroll through the whole thing.
Quote from Guido on 30.04.2024, 09:18Thanks for your feedback @hoya95. I've placed inline comments below. If you have any follow up questions or comments, please let me know.
Cheers, Guidonot having the cursor show in the form new topic post? text selection isn't showing either
I've not heard this problem before. Maybe a browser issue? Have you tried another browser?
(1) Scenic isn't scrolling the map in time to keep up with the ride.
Try turning on "Extrapolate position" in Settings > Finetuning. This "predicts" your position based on the route you are following and places your current position indicator on the "predicted" location.
(1) Road Names + Numbers
At the moment Scenic indeed shows road names only. If the road name is unknown it will show the road number. Except for highways. If it's a highway it will show the road number. I'll change this for the next update to show both number and name for all roads (if known, obviously)
visibly/audibly indicate that a turn will be in NN lefts/rights
I know what you mean, but I'm afraid that's not possible now. The map framework does not provide any information as to how many junctions should be "ignored" before making a turn.
Street names / numbers are a little hard to read
You can create a custom map style and increase the font size. Here's a forum topic on that: https://scenic.app/forum/topic/custom-map-styles/
textual list of the route taken
I'm afraid that's not possible for now. At the moment, Scenic stores only the coordinates where you have ridden. I'll add it to the feature request list to also store the names of the roads you took during a ride. Meanwhile, what you perhaps could do (if you are trying to explain the route you took to someone). Is, simply share the route or the recorded ride with that person. Then he/she can instantly see the map. Here's how you can share routes and rides: https://scenic.app/help/sharing-routes-rides/
Thanks for your feedback @hoya95. I've placed inline comments below. If you have any follow up questions or comments, please let me know.
Cheers, Guido
not having the cursor show in the form new topic post? text selection isn't showing either
I've not heard this problem before. Maybe a browser issue? Have you tried another browser?
(1) Scenic isn't scrolling the map in time to keep up with the ride.
Try turning on "Extrapolate position" in Settings > Finetuning. This "predicts" your position based on the route you are following and places your current position indicator on the "predicted" location.
(1) Road Names + Numbers
At the moment Scenic indeed shows road names only. If the road name is unknown it will show the road number. Except for highways. If it's a highway it will show the road number. I'll change this for the next update to show both number and name for all roads (if known, obviously)
visibly/audibly indicate that a turn will be in NN lefts/rights
I know what you mean, but I'm afraid that's not possible now. The map framework does not provide any information as to how many junctions should be "ignored" before making a turn.
Street names / numbers are a little hard to read
You can create a custom map style and increase the font size. Here's a forum topic on that: https://scenic.app/forum/topic/custom-map-styles/
textual list of the route taken
I'm afraid that's not possible for now. At the moment, Scenic stores only the coordinates where you have ridden. I'll add it to the feature request list to also store the names of the roads you took during a ride. Meanwhile, what you perhaps could do (if you are trying to explain the route you took to someone). Is, simply share the route or the recorded ride with that person. Then he/she can instantly see the map. Here's how you can share routes and rides: https://scenic.app/help/sharing-routes-rides/
Quote from Hoya95 on 30.04.2024, 11:08Hi Guido; appreciate the reply and suggestions. Thank you.
Just a little more info for you:
1. Forum Posting: The problem with the forum's Rich Text Editor/HTML Editor control only happens when I paste text in from Mac Notes. It is probably carrying some incompatible formatting meta characters. I just won't do that in the future. Obviously, not important in the least.
2. Extrapolate Position: Will give that a try; thank you.
3. Road Name & Numbers: Awesome; will look forward to that when/if you are able to do it.
4. NN Right/Left: Understood. I have an idea on how to get most of the way there that I'll try out against the Google maps API or another map framework API. If it works, I'll send the code on as a thought provoker and you can assess if it makes sense. If it doesn't, well, such is life.
5. Map Readability: thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I saw some really good examples posted by folks. Any chance you'd allow the export/import of Style configurations so we could share? Even thought it is only a few settings, I'm lazy and don't feel like trying to repeat what they've done. 🙂 Along the same thought, I'd personally prefer if my settings would sync across all the devices on my account.
6. Textual List of Route Taken: understood on your suggestion; that's what I've done but it is too much work for the receiver to scroll through the map as well, etc. But I get it, it is not the most important thing.Thanks again! I have to say that the configurability of the app - and the general intuitiveness/simpleness of the configurability - is outstanding. It has been a joy to use. The ability to modify the styles just now and solve my issue with the map readability made me smile.
Hi Guido; appreciate the reply and suggestions. Thank you.
Just a little more info for you:
1. Forum Posting: The problem with the forum's Rich Text Editor/HTML Editor control only happens when I paste text in from Mac Notes. It is probably carrying some incompatible formatting meta characters. I just won't do that in the future. Obviously, not important in the least.
2. Extrapolate Position: Will give that a try; thank you.
3. Road Name & Numbers: Awesome; will look forward to that when/if you are able to do it.
4. NN Right/Left: Understood. I have an idea on how to get most of the way there that I'll try out against the Google maps API or another map framework API. If it works, I'll send the code on as a thought provoker and you can assess if it makes sense. If it doesn't, well, such is life.
5. Map Readability: thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I saw some really good examples posted by folks. Any chance you'd allow the export/import of Style configurations so we could share? Even thought it is only a few settings, I'm lazy and don't feel like trying to repeat what they've done. 🙂 Along the same thought, I'd personally prefer if my settings would sync across all the devices on my account.
6. Textual List of Route Taken: understood on your suggestion; that's what I've done but it is too much work for the receiver to scroll through the map as well, etc. But I get it, it is not the most important thing.
Thanks again! I have to say that the configurability of the app - and the general intuitiveness/simpleness of the configurability - is outstanding. It has been a joy to use. The ability to modify the styles just now and solve my issue with the map readability made me smile.
Quote from Guido on 01.05.2024, 08:104. NN Right/Left: Understood. I have an idea on how to get most of the way there that I'll try out against the Google maps API or another map framework API. If it works, I'll send the code on as a thought provoker and you can assess if it makes sense. If it doesn't, well, such is life.
OK. Very curious about this. Please keep me posted!
Any chance you'd allow the export/import of Style configurations so we could share?
This is already on the feature request list, but it's low on the list (meaning, probabaly it will take me a long time before I have time for it). Also because it's relatively easy and fast to do the "workaround" solution.
6. Textual List of Route Taken
To verify if I understand this correctly. You would like a list of the road names you were on for a Recorded Ride, correct? Or are you referring to a list of turn instructions for a route?
4. NN Right/Left: Understood. I have an idea on how to get most of the way there that I'll try out against the Google maps API or another map framework API. If it works, I'll send the code on as a thought provoker and you can assess if it makes sense. If it doesn't, well, such is life.
OK. Very curious about this. Please keep me posted!
Any chance you'd allow the export/import of Style configurations so we could share?
This is already on the feature request list, but it's low on the list (meaning, probabaly it will take me a long time before I have time for it). Also because it's relatively easy and fast to do the "workaround" solution.
6. Textual List of Route Taken
To verify if I understand this correctly. You would like a list of the road names you were on for a Recorded Ride, correct? Or are you referring to a list of turn instructions for a route?
Quote from Hoya95 on 01.05.2024, 08:54Hi Guido -
Textual List of Route Taken
While (obviously) the list of turn instructions for a route would be the most complete approach, I think if just the road names is a more lightweight and quick solution to implement, I'd start there and it may well be more than sufficient. I believe it satisfies much of the expected usage -- concise textual/oral sharing of a route -- because the turns are generally more obvious and can be inferred.NNth Turn
I'll let you know re: the NNth turn. Probably a weekend code spelunking expedition to see if it is viable. I did a little digging around yesterday in Google's API docs and remain encouraged. I'll outline the approach here in case you have enough knowledge to just say "non-viable" or if I've missed something big, before I spend too much time. While I've been a software engineer/leader my whole life, I haven't dabbled in routing in the least.Effectively, I believe the following is possible:
1. define a route in Scenic
2. for each segment of the route (i.e. between either start/last turn and next turn), take samples of the Geo coords along the segment
3. using the different Google APIs (Roads, Reverse Geocoding) you can discover the the side streets that will be passed (this is the part that I need to write sample code for and test)
4. it would be then possible to store the static list of streets that will be passed - each including their geo code position - and associate that list with the segment within Scenic
5. if scenic is sampling GPS coords while in navigation, it could reference the static list associated w/the current segment and use that for the "take the NNth right/left turn"Obviously, if someone goes off route, this part of the functionality will not be available. And I believe the above is not a violation of Google's TOS but I haven't gone deep there to verify.
Extrapolate Position
Lastly, I tried riding w/the extrapolate position yesterday. I'm going to give it another run in a few minutes. So far, my observation is that it has improved things but not quite to the point of solving the issue and/or being comparable with Apple Maps or Google Maps accuracy. I still found myself as the first vehicle at a stop light and looked down and it gave the impression that I was 50ft from the intersection still. As I mentioned, that's not based on a lot of additional rides yet. So, I'll give it a more extended go over the next few days and check it out over 4-5 additional rides but I do wonder if there are parameters that you can expose to tweak that a little bit further.
Hi Guido -
Textual List of Route Taken
While (obviously) the list of turn instructions for a route would be the most complete approach, I think if just the road names is a more lightweight and quick solution to implement, I'd start there and it may well be more than sufficient. I believe it satisfies much of the expected usage -- concise textual/oral sharing of a route -- because the turns are generally more obvious and can be inferred.
NNth Turn
I'll let you know re: the NNth turn. Probably a weekend code spelunking expedition to see if it is viable. I did a little digging around yesterday in Google's API docs and remain encouraged. I'll outline the approach here in case you have enough knowledge to just say "non-viable" or if I've missed something big, before I spend too much time. While I've been a software engineer/leader my whole life, I haven't dabbled in routing in the least.
Effectively, I believe the following is possible:
1. define a route in Scenic
2. for each segment of the route (i.e. between either start/last turn and next turn), take samples of the Geo coords along the segment
3. using the different Google APIs (Roads, Reverse Geocoding) you can discover the the side streets that will be passed (this is the part that I need to write sample code for and test)
4. it would be then possible to store the static list of streets that will be passed - each including their geo code position - and associate that list with the segment within Scenic
5. if scenic is sampling GPS coords while in navigation, it could reference the static list associated w/the current segment and use that for the "take the NNth right/left turn"
Obviously, if someone goes off route, this part of the functionality will not be available. And I believe the above is not a violation of Google's TOS but I haven't gone deep there to verify.
Extrapolate Position
Lastly, I tried riding w/the extrapolate position yesterday. I'm going to give it another run in a few minutes. So far, my observation is that it has improved things but not quite to the point of solving the issue and/or being comparable with Apple Maps or Google Maps accuracy. I still found myself as the first vehicle at a stop light and looked down and it gave the impression that I was 50ft from the intersection still. As I mentioned, that's not based on a lot of additional rides yet. So, I'll give it a more extended go over the next few days and check it out over 4-5 additional rides but I do wonder if there are parameters that you can expose to tweak that a little bit further.
Quote from Guido on 01.05.2024, 09:38Textual List of Route Taken
List of turn instructions is actually easier (the HERE map framework can provide this). But that's only available for a route, not for a recorded ride.
NNth Turn
- I'm not very familiar with the Google API (Scenic uses HERE maps SDK). With HERE it's not possible to get node/road information in a certain area around a coordinate. (It used to be possible in their previous SDK, but not anymore). I assume this is possible with the Google API. Does this also give you information about the direction of the road? I.e. you want to ignore the streets on the left side if you have to go the Nth to the right.
- Performance and battery consumption would also be a concern for me. Even if you get the streets to pass beforehand, you would constantly have to "search"/"poll" the list of streets for basically every coordinate that comes in (every second). I'm sure there is a more or less efficient way to do this, but still, whatever code runs, would have to run every second (because you need to know when you pass a street to reduce the N). This will definitely have an impact on the lagging possition (your next point).
- Cost would also be a factor for me. Since HERE can't do this (anymore), I would incur Google API costs, and Google is not cheap. I didn't look into details, but imagining this has to be done for all routes (or at least all navigation sessions), and a route having average length of 200km (probably needing a sample coordinate every 20/30 meters... that's a LOT of requests.
Extrapolate Position
It's weird that your position is lagging even when not moving. I can imagine there is a small lag due to Scenic taking time to process incoming coordinates, but when moving slow, or not even moving, it should "catch up". What device are you running Scenic on? And what is your region?
Textual List of Route Taken
List of turn instructions is actually easier (the HERE map framework can provide this). But that's only available for a route, not for a recorded ride.
NNth Turn
- I'm not very familiar with the Google API (Scenic uses HERE maps SDK). With HERE it's not possible to get node/road information in a certain area around a coordinate. (It used to be possible in their previous SDK, but not anymore). I assume this is possible with the Google API. Does this also give you information about the direction of the road? I.e. you want to ignore the streets on the left side if you have to go the Nth to the right.
- Performance and battery consumption would also be a concern for me. Even if you get the streets to pass beforehand, you would constantly have to "search"/"poll" the list of streets for basically every coordinate that comes in (every second). I'm sure there is a more or less efficient way to do this, but still, whatever code runs, would have to run every second (because you need to know when you pass a street to reduce the N). This will definitely have an impact on the lagging possition (your next point).
- Cost would also be a factor for me. Since HERE can't do this (anymore), I would incur Google API costs, and Google is not cheap. I didn't look into details, but imagining this has to be done for all routes (or at least all navigation sessions), and a route having average length of 200km (probably needing a sample coordinate every 20/30 meters... that's a LOT of requests.
Extrapolate Position
It's weird that your position is lagging even when not moving. I can imagine there is a small lag due to Scenic taking time to process incoming coordinates, but when moving slow, or not even moving, it should "catch up". What device are you running Scenic on? And what is your region?
Quote from jmossfeld on 25.06.2024, 07:12I, too, look forward to having street/road numbers available. I’m getting “scenic byway this” and “so-and-so memorial highway that” in turn by turn directions which is confusing because the alternative name is often not posted on road signs and also disagrees with what I see on Google Maps.
I, too, look forward to having street/road numbers available. I’m getting “scenic byway this” and “so-and-so memorial highway that” in turn by turn directions which is confusing because the alternative name is often not posted on road signs and also disagrees with what I see on Google Maps.
