Using Scenic without data
Quote from Wingster on 08.01.2023, 20:18Hello, I’m brand new to your Scenic App, having switched from Garmin GPS’s and Basecamp to create and navigate routes. I elected to become a “forever” Premium member and have purchased / downloaded offline maps for Canada and the US. I currently have the Scenic app on my iPhone 11, and am based in Ontario, Canada.
In order to avoid outrageous data roaming charges my carrier imposes when travelling in the US, I would like to use Scenic without using roaming data.
A couple of questions:
1. When creating a route in the Scenic app, does it save the route to the device or Cloud, or both. If I’m away from the internet or cell service and want to access a saved route will it be accessible from my phone’s storage?2. As mentioned, I’d like to use Scenic without incurring roaming data charges. What is the best way to do this? Activate Airplane mode? Will Scenic recognize that the data has been shut off and automatically refer to the downloaded offline maps?
Thanks.
Hello, I’m brand new to your Scenic App, having switched from Garmin GPS’s and Basecamp to create and navigate routes. I elected to become a “forever” Premium member and have purchased / downloaded offline maps for Canada and the US. I currently have the Scenic app on my iPhone 11, and am based in Ontario, Canada.
In order to avoid outrageous data roaming charges my carrier imposes when travelling in the US, I would like to use Scenic without using roaming data.
A couple of questions:
1. When creating a route in the Scenic app, does it save the route to the device or Cloud, or both. If I’m away from the internet or cell service and want to access a saved route will it be accessible from my phone’s storage?
2. As mentioned, I’d like to use Scenic without incurring roaming data charges. What is the best way to do this? Activate Airplane mode? Will Scenic recognize that the data has been shut off and automatically refer to the downloaded offline maps?
Thanks.
Quote from Guido on 09.01.2023, 09:16I have been getting this question a lot lately, so let me give try to give a comprehensive answer that covers all these questions regarding Scenic data use.
Scenic's data use can be split up into two categories:
(1) Data use regarding the maps, route calculation, and navigation
(2) Data used for syncing your user data (routes, rides, locations, vehicles, etc.) to the Scenic server (or "the cloud," if you will).Number (1) has by far the most data usage. Number (2) uses much fewer data as your data is saved locally and synced with the Scenic server. So, your information is always available when offline.
To eliminate data usage for (1), you can simply download the offline maps for the regions you are riding in / planning routes in. Scenic detects when offline maps are installed and if so, will use the on-device map/routing/navigation data. If the offline maps are not installed, it will download the visual map data and data required for route calculations and navigation at the point it is needed.
Now, there are three ways to make Scenic use no data at all:
Airplane mode. This works system-wide, not only for Scenic. Scenic will continue to work as long as you have the offline maps installed. Your changes in data (new rides, routes, etc.) will sync to the Scenic server the next time you open Scenic when you do have a connection.
Turn off cellular data for Scenic. You can prevent Scenic from using cellular data. You can do this through iOS Settings > Scenic > Cellular data OFF. This way, Scenic will only connect when your device is on Wifi. Again, you'll need to have the offline maps installed while navigating with cellular data off. Otherwise, there might not be enough map/routing data on the device to do route (re-)calculations while on the road.
Turn off data roaming. (iOS Settings > Cellular > Cellular data options) Like Airplane mode, this works system-wide. This prevents your device from using cellular data when you are abroad (connected to a network other than your own provider). I like this setting because it only works when I need to. Because I have unlimited data when I'm in my own country, I don't care if I use data in my own country. However, when I go abroad, I'm assured that none of my apps use the expensive data.
I hope this helps or explains things. If not, or if you have other questions, please let me know. Happy to help.
Best regards and ride safe,
Guido
I have been getting this question a lot lately, so let me give try to give a comprehensive answer that covers all these questions regarding Scenic data use.
Scenic's data use can be split up into two categories:
(1) Data use regarding the maps, route calculation, and navigation
(2) Data used for syncing your user data (routes, rides, locations, vehicles, etc.) to the Scenic server (or "the cloud," if you will).
Number (1) has by far the most data usage. Number (2) uses much fewer data as your data is saved locally and synced with the Scenic server. So, your information is always available when offline.
To eliminate data usage for (1), you can simply download the offline maps for the regions you are riding in / planning routes in. Scenic detects when offline maps are installed and if so, will use the on-device map/routing/navigation data. If the offline maps are not installed, it will download the visual map data and data required for route calculations and navigation at the point it is needed.
Now, there are three ways to make Scenic use no data at all:
Airplane mode. This works system-wide, not only for Scenic. Scenic will continue to work as long as you have the offline maps installed. Your changes in data (new rides, routes, etc.) will sync to the Scenic server the next time you open Scenic when you do have a connection.
Turn off cellular data for Scenic. You can prevent Scenic from using cellular data. You can do this through iOS Settings > Scenic > Cellular data OFF. This way, Scenic will only connect when your device is on Wifi. Again, you'll need to have the offline maps installed while navigating with cellular data off. Otherwise, there might not be enough map/routing data on the device to do route (re-)calculations while on the road.
Turn off data roaming. (iOS Settings > Cellular > Cellular data options) Like Airplane mode, this works system-wide. This prevents your device from using cellular data when you are abroad (connected to a network other than your own provider). I like this setting because it only works when I need to. Because I have unlimited data when I'm in my own country, I don't care if I use data in my own country. However, when I go abroad, I'm assured that none of my apps use the expensive data.
I hope this helps or explains things. If not, or if you have other questions, please let me know. Happy to help.
Best regards and ride safe,
Guido
Quote from Wingster on 10.01.2023, 19:13Thank you so much for your very thorough reply. It was exactly the information I was looking for.
Thank you so much for your very thorough reply. It was exactly the information I was looking for.
Quote from iSilentP on 12.01.2023, 12:27Quote from Guido on 09.01.2023, 09:16<snip>
To eliminate data usage for (1), you can simply download the offline maps for the regions you are riding in / planning routes in. Scenic detects when offline maps are installed and if so, will use the on-device map/routing/navigation data.If the offline maps are not installed, it will download the visual map data and data required for route calculations and navigation at the point it is needed.
</snip>
When using the on-device map, is the fidelity of the maps any different (less dense/accurate) than the on-line (over cellular network) visual maps?
Quote from Guido on 09.01.2023, 09:16<snip>
To eliminate data usage for (1), you can simply download the offline maps for the regions you are riding in / planning routes in. Scenic detects when offline maps are installed and if so, will use the on-device map/routing/navigation data.If the offline maps are not installed, it will download the visual map data and data required for route calculations and navigation at the point it is needed.
</snip>
When using the on-device map, is the fidelity of the maps any different (less dense/accurate) than the on-line (over cellular network) visual maps?
Quote from Guido on 12.01.2023, 12:50No. The only difference you might notice is that the online maps could be more current (new roads, more current search results). HERE release map updates very frequently so if you update the offline maps whenever you get the popup upon opening Scenic, the difference shouldn't be too big.
No. The only difference you might notice is that the online maps could be more current (new roads, more current search results). HERE release map updates very frequently so if you update the offline maps whenever you get the popup upon opening Scenic, the difference shouldn't be too big.
Quote from massi on 17.01.2023, 04:16I would like to mention, that if you're one the road and have no cellular or Wifi connection it is not possible to create curvy routes only A to B routing with shortest time, am I right?
I would like to mention, that if you're one the road and have no cellular or Wifi connection it is not possible to create curvy routes only A to B routing with shortest time, am I right?
Quote from Guido on 17.01.2023, 04:54Yea. That is correct, and a good addition to this topic. Scenic needs a connection to generate curvy routes. If you created the curvy route beforehand and saved it, you don’t need a connection.
Yea. That is correct, and a good addition to this topic. Scenic needs a connection to generate curvy routes. If you created the curvy route beforehand and saved it, you don’t need a connection.
Quote from Not Lost On Me on 21.02.2023, 12:27Hi Guido
I'm a little confused about maps, downloads and connectivity.
You said "To eliminate data usage for (1), you can simply download the offline maps for the regions you are riding in / planning routes in. Scenic detects when offline maps are installed and if so, will use the on-device map/routing/navigation data. If the offline maps are not installed, it will download the visual map data and data required for route calculations and navigation at the point it is needed"
However, in a previous message you indicated that "Offline maps are linked to your account, so when you logout the maps are removed. When you login again you’ll have to redownload"
Question: If I download a map (when I have connectivity), then logout, then at some point later, launch Scenic when I have no cellular/WiFi connectivity, what map is the app using?
Please clarify for me
Thank you
Hi Guido
I'm a little confused about maps, downloads and connectivity.
You said "To eliminate data usage for (1), you can simply download the offline maps for the regions you are riding in / planning routes in. Scenic detects when offline maps are installed and if so, will use the on-device map/routing/navigation data. If the offline maps are not installed, it will download the visual map data and data required for route calculations and navigation at the point it is needed"
However, in a previous message you indicated that "Offline maps are linked to your account, so when you logout the maps are removed. When you login again you’ll have to redownload"
Question: If I download a map (when I have connectivity), then logout, then at some point later, launch Scenic when I have no cellular/WiFi connectivity, what map is the app using?
Please clarify for me
Thank you
Quote from Guido on 21.02.2023, 12:33If I download a map (when I have connectivity), then logout, then at some point later, launch Scenic when I have no cellular/WiFi connectivity, what map is the app using?
When you logout, the offline maps are removed.
When you login again, you'll need to re-download your offline maps (but Scenic knows which ones you purchased before so you won't have to pay for them again). But the action of re-downloading is not done automatically. You'll need to manually do that.
Does that explain?
If I download a map (when I have connectivity), then logout, then at some point later, launch Scenic when I have no cellular/WiFi connectivity, what map is the app using?
When you logout, the offline maps are removed.
When you login again, you'll need to re-download your offline maps (but Scenic knows which ones you purchased before so you won't have to pay for them again). But the action of re-downloading is not done automatically. You'll need to manually do that.
Does that explain?
Quote from Not Lost On Me on 21.02.2023, 12:45Unfortunately it does not really answer my question. If I do not have a data connection, I will not be able to login and download the offline maps, correct?
Therefore, what map would the app be using (at that time)?
Unfortunately it does not really answer my question. If I do not have a data connection, I will not be able to login and download the offline maps, correct?
Therefore, what map would the app be using (at that time)?
Quote from Guido on 21.02.2023, 13:01Online maps and cached map data if present.
Let me explain the cache:
Next to offline map packages downloadable by country/state, Scenic also uses "cached" data. Whenever you visit a map area, and the offline maps are not on the device for that area, but you do have a connection, Scenic will download the map for the area that you are viewing, and store it in the cache.
The cache is of a specific undetermined, but fixed, size in MB. What I've seen, it's around 250 MB, but it depends on factors I don't have insight in (it's determined by the HERE framework). So, the cache stores map data, but when the cache is full it throws away the oldest data in the cache to make room for new data.
In practice this works as follows... say you load a route in the main screen. Then the map will center on the route, and map data starts to download to the cache. Then, you start riding and go out of reception. All should still go well (because the map data is in the cache). However, if you deviate from the route (and the route needs to recalculate), and you don't have a connection, there is no guarantee that the data required to do the recalculation is in the cache. This can result in recalculations not being possible, or the recalculated route taking main roads only. (the map detail that is downloaded to the cache also depends on the zoom level of the map. Zoomed way out (very distance, large map area) it will store mostly main roads and highways... not the tiny roads probably.
I guess my question is, why would you logout at all? Better to avoid above risk of not being able to recalculate and stay logged right? Or is there a specific scenario you are worried about?
Online maps and cached map data if present.
Let me explain the cache:
Next to offline map packages downloadable by country/state, Scenic also uses "cached" data. Whenever you visit a map area, and the offline maps are not on the device for that area, but you do have a connection, Scenic will download the map for the area that you are viewing, and store it in the cache.
The cache is of a specific undetermined, but fixed, size in MB. What I've seen, it's around 250 MB, but it depends on factors I don't have insight in (it's determined by the HERE framework). So, the cache stores map data, but when the cache is full it throws away the oldest data in the cache to make room for new data.
In practice this works as follows... say you load a route in the main screen. Then the map will center on the route, and map data starts to download to the cache. Then, you start riding and go out of reception. All should still go well (because the map data is in the cache). However, if you deviate from the route (and the route needs to recalculate), and you don't have a connection, there is no guarantee that the data required to do the recalculation is in the cache. This can result in recalculations not being possible, or the recalculated route taking main roads only. (the map detail that is downloaded to the cache also depends on the zoom level of the map. Zoomed way out (very distance, large map area) it will store mostly main roads and highways... not the tiny roads probably.
I guess my question is, why would you logout at all? Better to avoid above risk of not being able to recalculate and stay logged right? Or is there a specific scenario you are worried about?
Quote from Not Lost On Me on 21.02.2023, 15:54Thank you Guido for the clarification. It makes sense now, once you explained the cache.
You also raise a good point about "why would you logout at all?"
I had thought that closing the application (or losing connectivity) would log the user out (from the server) but it seems the app either runs in the background or auto logs the user back in once a connection is re-established.
Thanks once again for taking time to explain
Thank you Guido for the clarification. It makes sense now, once you explained the cache.
You also raise a good point about "why would you logout at all?"
I had thought that closing the application (or losing connectivity) would log the user out (from the server) but it seems the app either runs in the background or auto logs the user back in once a connection is re-established.
Thanks once again for taking time to explain
Quote from Guido on 21.02.2023, 16:37Ah. I understand. Indeed you stay logged in. There are only very few scenarios where you are logged out:
- If you log out yourself
- If you delete Scenic from your phone and reinstall it
- If you install Scenic on a new phone
Even if Scenic automatically updates to a new version (if you have that enabled iOS Settings > App Store) you will stay logged in.
Losing connection or turning off your phone won't log you out.
Ah. I understand. Indeed you stay logged in. There are only very few scenarios where you are logged out:
- If you log out yourself
- If you delete Scenic from your phone and reinstall it
- If you install Scenic on a new phone
Even if Scenic automatically updates to a new version (if you have that enabled iOS Settings > App Store) you will stay logged in.
Losing connection or turning off your phone won't log you out.
