Superfluous voice announcements at a via point
Quote from edddui on 06.10.2024, 11:53The following occurs most of the time: the voice announcer gives unnecessary voice instruction when approaching a via point which is placed on a completely straight road without side roads nearby. It’s saying something in the lines of:
”In 300m, keep left at <streetname I’m currently riding>”. When I’m at the via point, this message is repeated.
Eddy
The following occurs most of the time: the voice announcer gives unnecessary voice instruction when approaching a via point which is placed on a completely straight road without side roads nearby. It’s saying something in the lines of:
”In 300m, keep left at <streetname I’m currently riding>”. When I’m at the via point, this message is repeated.
Eddy
Quote from Guido on 06.10.2024, 12:42Is this with version 4 of Scenic? You can see version number at the bottom of Settings.
Is this with version 4 of Scenic? You can see version number at the bottom of Settings.
Quote from Guido on 06.10.2024, 12:46Hmm. OK. That's unexpected. Only stops should create voice instructions. Not via points.
I'll have a look.
Hmm. OK. That's unexpected. Only stops should create voice instructions. Not via points.
I'll have a look.
Quote from edddui on 06.10.2024, 13:10Unrelated note: Would it be useful to split the forum posts relevant to older Scenic versions and the current Scenic version 4.x? There are quite a few posts on issues that have become obsolete due to the automatic upgrade to Scenic 4.
Unrelated note: Would it be useful to split the forum posts relevant to older Scenic versions and the current Scenic version 4.x? There are quite a few posts on issues that have become obsolete due to the automatic upgrade to Scenic 4.
Quote from Old Man Emu on 06.10.2024, 16:03Quote from edddui on 06.10.2024, 13:10Unrelated note: Would it be useful to split the forum posts relevant to older Scenic versions and the current Scenic version 4.x? There are quite a few posts on issues that have become obsolete due to the automatic upgrade to Scenic 4.
Excellent idea 💡. Often I’ll do a search and come up with a post 3 years old.
It might be a fair bit of work though as some older posts for feature requests for Scenic 3 might still be relevant.
An option I’ve seen used elsewhere is to allow a ticket to be created for feature requests and bugs. Once addressed the ticket can be closed but the subject matter is still searchable by “searching closed tickets”. More along the lines of an incident management system.
Multiple languages add to the complexity too.
Quote from edddui on 06.10.2024, 13:10Unrelated note: Would it be useful to split the forum posts relevant to older Scenic versions and the current Scenic version 4.x? There are quite a few posts on issues that have become obsolete due to the automatic upgrade to Scenic 4.
Excellent idea 💡. Often I’ll do a search and come up with a post 3 years old.
It might be a fair bit of work though as some older posts for feature requests for Scenic 3 might still be relevant.
An option I’ve seen used elsewhere is to allow a ticket to be created for feature requests and bugs. Once addressed the ticket can be closed but the subject matter is still searchable by “searching closed tickets”. More along the lines of an incident management system.
Multiple languages add to the complexity too.
Quote from Guido on 06.10.2024, 16:53I don’t have the time to do this now, and it’s not a structural solution. The forum search function is bad, I know. It’s better to do a google search and then add “site:scenic.app/forum” in the Google search bar.
I don’t have the time to do this now, and it’s not a structural solution. The forum search function is bad, I know. It’s better to do a google search and then add “site:scenic.app/forum” in the Google search bar.
Quote from sdk on 08.07.2025, 14:28Quote from Guido on 06.10.2024, 12:46Hmm. OK. That's unexpected. Only stops should create voice instructions. Not via points.
I'll have a look.I'm still experiencing this behavior in 4.21 and I wonder about it not generating more reports here.
Does this only happen to a few people?
Quote from Guido on 06.10.2024, 12:46Hmm. OK. That's unexpected. Only stops should create voice instructions. Not via points.
I'll have a look.
I'm still experiencing this behavior in 4.21 and I wonder about it not generating more reports here.
Does this only happen to a few people?
Quote from Dae on 08.07.2025, 15:06@guidomm - this sounds like the issue we’ve discussed where I get a “keep left/right” for some (not all) via points placed in the middle of long roads (points are not near junctions).
@guidomm - this sounds like the issue we’ve discussed where I get a “keep left/right” for some (not all) via points placed in the middle of long roads (points are not near junctions).
Quote from sdk on 09.07.2025, 02:45Quote from Dae on 08.07.2025, 15:06@guidomm - this sounds like the issue we’ve discussed where I get a “keep left/right” for some (not all) via points placed in the middle of long roads (points are not near junctions).
That's very likely. I often set via points away from junktions, because I share files via GPX a lot, and other navis, with other maps, tend to have subtle map shifts and a via point may hop onto another road in tight intersections. So I avoid setting via points there.
But it's not only the voice announcements. There's the instruction arrow going into the direction of the via point. Even though the next real turn would go the other way.
Quote from Dae on 08.07.2025, 15:06@guidomm - this sounds like the issue we’ve discussed where I get a “keep left/right” for some (not all) via points placed in the middle of long roads (points are not near junctions).
That's very likely. I often set via points away from junktions, because I share files via GPX a lot, and other navis, with other maps, tend to have subtle map shifts and a via point may hop onto another road in tight intersections. So I avoid setting via points there.
But it's not only the voice announcements. There's the instruction arrow going into the direction of the via point. Even though the next real turn would go the other way.
Quote from Dae on 09.07.2025, 05:17I get the voice and arrow frequently with shaping points I put half way down a road (similar to you, to influence other people’s nav, but also as a backup in case I accidentally skip a waypoint)
The voice/arrow usually say keep left or keep right but what I actually do is do nothing and keep going!
The main reason for the annoyance is that I may not overtake a vehicle as I can see that soon I’ll have to change direction, based on the arrow and voice, only to find it’s a rogue instruction and I could have overtaken.
I get the voice and arrow frequently with shaping points I put half way down a road (similar to you, to influence other people’s nav, but also as a backup in case I accidentally skip a waypoint)
The voice/arrow usually say keep left or keep right but what I actually do is do nothing and keep going!
The main reason for the annoyance is that I may not overtake a vehicle as I can see that soon I’ll have to change direction, based on the arrow and voice, only to find it’s a rogue instruction and I could have overtaken.
Quote from Guido on 09.07.2025, 10:53As you can tell, more reports are coming in about this.
Could you give me some examples roads / routes where this is happening? Then I can do a detailed test. The instructions are already generated when the route is calculated for the first time. I need to find a reliable way to filter them out, so I need to see exactly what kind/type of instructions these are. If you could share routes that have shown this behaviour (select route from route list > 3 dots button top right > share link) and tell me which via point numbers this happened for, that would be very helpful.
As you can tell, more reports are coming in about this.
Could you give me some examples roads / routes where this is happening? Then I can do a detailed test. The instructions are already generated when the route is calculated for the first time. I need to find a reliable way to filter them out, so I need to see exactly what kind/type of instructions these are. If you could share routes that have shown this behaviour (select route from route list > 3 dots button top right > share link) and tell me which via point numbers this happened for, that would be very helpful.
Quote from Atticuscat on 10.07.2025, 08:16Quote from Guido on 09.07.2025, 10:53As you can tell, more reports are coming in about this.
Could you give me some examples roads / routes where this is happening?I get lots of these superfluous announcements and until it was pointed out in this thread I hadn’t associated them with via points but paying more attention in my last few rides it does seem to be the case. An example from today, I was told to keep right at via 2. Overview of planned route (via 1, 2, 3) and close up of via 2 from the recorded ride. Guido, I will share the route with you directly.
.
Quote from Guido on 09.07.2025, 10:53As you can tell, more reports are coming in about this.
Could you give me some examples roads / routes where this is happening?
I get lots of these superfluous announcements and until it was pointed out in this thread I hadn’t associated them with via points but paying more attention in my last few rides it does seem to be the case. An example from today, I was told to keep right at via 2. Overview of planned route (via 1, 2, 3) and close up of via 2 from the recorded ride. Guido, I will share the route with you directly. .
Quote from Atticuscat on 10.07.2025, 08:25Quote from Atticuscat on 10.07.2025, 08:16Guido, I will share the route with you directly.Okay, that wasn’t as straightforward as I expected! Guido, how do I share the route link with just you rather than post the link to the forum? I can’t see a direct contact for you in your profile on the forum.
Quote from Atticuscat on 10.07.2025, 08:16Guido, I will share the route with you directly.
Okay, that wasn’t as straightforward as I expected! Guido, how do I share the route link with just you rather than post the link to the forum? I can’t see a direct contact for you in your profile on the forum.
Quote from Guido on 10.07.2025, 08:27Thank you Atticuscat.. to contact me directly use the "Email me" button at the bottom of https://scenic.app/help (I'm not putting my email in plain text to prevent web bots from picking it up).
Thank you Atticuscat.. to contact me directly use the "Email me" button at the bottom of https://scenic.app/help (I'm not putting my email in plain text to prevent web bots from picking it up).
Quote from Guido on 11.07.2025, 01:07OK. My analysis so far (based on example from Aticuscat). Please let me know if you can confirm this, or if you noticed something differently.
- The unnecessary instructions are always a "stay/keep right" or "stay/keep left" instruction??? (please let me know if you found differently)
- The instructions are definitely caused by via points, because if I remove via point 2 in Aticuscat example the instruction is not generated.
Now... this is definitely a bug in the routing framework. In other words, out of my control. I'll have to submit a ticket so get this resolved. Experience learns that this can take a long time.
I could implement a workaround to filter out the keep right and keep left instructions (filtering out the verbal ones is easy... filtering out the visual ones difficult as that would mean that next instruction should show instead and distance to turn needs to summed). This will have the unwanted side effect that also valid "keep right" and "keep left" instructions would be filtered out.
Before I start working on that, I'd like some more data on this. I'd like to know with relative certaintly that indeed these are always keep left and keep right instructions. If not, then there is no reliable way to filter them out I'm afraid.
Also... I'd like your opinion... what's more anoying... the unnecessary instructions, or risk of missing a "real" keep right / keep left turn because there is no instruction.
There is one other way I thought of... I could try to automatically delete the via point if it generates an instruction, and check if it affects the shape of the route.... my guess is that more often than not, it won't affect the route. And then I could safely remove it. But... that's also a lot of work and not risk free to develop/test and implement.
Keep in mind that these will all be workaround solutions. The real solution is for the routing framework to resolve this.
I typically prefer not to bother you users with these details, but in this case I'd really like to hear your opinion.
OK. My analysis so far (based on example from Aticuscat). Please let me know if you can confirm this, or if you noticed something differently.
- The unnecessary instructions are always a "stay/keep right" or "stay/keep left" instruction??? (please let me know if you found differently)
- The instructions are definitely caused by via points, because if I remove via point 2 in Aticuscat example the instruction is not generated.
Now... this is definitely a bug in the routing framework. In other words, out of my control. I'll have to submit a ticket so get this resolved. Experience learns that this can take a long time.
I could implement a workaround to filter out the keep right and keep left instructions (filtering out the verbal ones is easy... filtering out the visual ones difficult as that would mean that next instruction should show instead and distance to turn needs to summed). This will have the unwanted side effect that also valid "keep right" and "keep left" instructions would be filtered out.
Before I start working on that, I'd like some more data on this. I'd like to know with relative certaintly that indeed these are always keep left and keep right instructions. If not, then there is no reliable way to filter them out I'm afraid.
Also... I'd like your opinion... what's more anoying... the unnecessary instructions, or risk of missing a "real" keep right / keep left turn because there is no instruction.
There is one other way I thought of... I could try to automatically delete the via point if it generates an instruction, and check if it affects the shape of the route.... my guess is that more often than not, it won't affect the route. And then I could safely remove it. But... that's also a lot of work and not risk free to develop/test and implement.
Keep in mind that these will all be workaround solutions. The real solution is for the routing framework to resolve this.
I typically prefer not to bother you users with these details, but in this case I'd really like to hear your opinion.
Quote from Dae on 11.07.2025, 02:22@guidomm - I can confirm that, in my experience, it’s always a keep left/right and only ever happens with a via point.
I’d prefer not to lose valid keep left/right as there are a number of times they are needed due to UK road layouts.
I’m not convinced about stripping Vias - I often put them half way down a road so that if I miss a previous point (at the start of the road), or have to join the same road at a different position, my route still travels down the road I want to go down.
I think that any risk to changing a route I’ve planned is far more inconvenient than the spurious instructions.
Do you still have the route I emailed you about this problem on 24/04/25 (via 41 was an example)?
@guidomm - I can confirm that, in my experience, it’s always a keep left/right and only ever happens with a via point.
I’d prefer not to lose valid keep left/right as there are a number of times they are needed due to UK road layouts.
I’m not convinced about stripping Vias - I often put them half way down a road so that if I miss a previous point (at the start of the road), or have to join the same road at a different position, my route still travels down the road I want to go down.
I think that any risk to changing a route I’ve planned is far more inconvenient than the spurious instructions.
Do you still have the route I emailed you about this problem on 24/04/25 (via 41 was an example)?
Quote from Atticuscat on 11.07.2025, 02:42Now the connection between the keep left/right and via points has been made I’ll pay more attention to when they occur, and report back. I’d certainly rather put up with the unnecessary instructions than lose necessary ones or have via points removed which I place to bring me back to my chosen route should I deviate from it.
Is now a good time to raise the maddening ‘turn right then turn left’ at obviously straight ahead give way crossroads… 😉
Now the connection between the keep left/right and via points has been made I’ll pay more attention to when they occur, and report back. I’d certainly rather put up with the unnecessary instructions than lose necessary ones or have via points removed which I place to bring me back to my chosen route should I deviate from it.
Is now a good time to raise the maddening ‘turn right then turn left’ at obviously straight ahead give way crossroads… 😉
Quote from Guido on 11.07.2025, 03:52@Dae… yes. I should have the route. (Sorry that slipped my mind… will analyse that later today or tomorrow).
@atticuscat, yes please let me know what you find. About the turn right then turn left… I’m afraid that will be agin one of those things that I can’t really filter out reliably. But let me check if there is a configuration option for that in the routing engine. Will get back to you on that as well later today or tomorrow.
@Dae… yes. I should have the route. (Sorry that slipped my mind… will analyse that later today or tomorrow).
@atticuscat, yes please let me know what you find. About the turn right then turn left… I’m afraid that will be agin one of those things that I can’t really filter out reliably. But let me check if there is a configuration option for that in the routing engine. Will get back to you on that as well later today or tomorrow.
Quote from Atticuscat on 11.07.2025, 08:57I have another 4 occurrences from a 92 mile/30 point route today. Guido, I’ll share the route and details with you. It occurred to me that I don’t recall this ever happening on a ‘main’ road. I ride almost exclusively small roads (C roads and unclassified roads in the UK) linked together with B and minor A roads, so it could just be that I don’t spend enough time on major roads to trigger the superfluous announcements.
I have another 4 occurrences from a 92 mile/30 point route today. Guido, I’ll share the route and details with you. It occurred to me that I don’t recall this ever happening on a ‘main’ road. I ride almost exclusively small roads (C roads and unclassified roads in the UK) linked together with B and minor A roads, so it could just be that I don’t spend enough time on major roads to trigger the superfluous announcements.
Quote from Guido on 12.07.2025, 01:03Yep... so I analysed the three routes and can confirm that sometimes via points generate this keep right or keep left instruction. I'm going to add a setting (you can choose to enable it, to filter out the VOICE instructions for keep right and keep left. This is easy to implement. You'll still have the visual instructions on the screen if you enable it. I think that's the best / most flexible way to deal with it at this point. I also have enough data now to submit a ticket to the route routing engine project.
Thank you all for your input.
Yep... so I analysed the three routes and can confirm that sometimes via points generate this keep right or keep left instruction. I'm going to add a setting (you can choose to enable it, to filter out the VOICE instructions for keep right and keep left. This is easy to implement. You'll still have the visual instructions on the screen if you enable it. I think that's the best / most flexible way to deal with it at this point. I also have enough data now to submit a ticket to the route routing engine project.
Thank you all for your input.
Quote from Dae on 12.07.2025, 01:07@guidomm - I’m out all day today and tomorrow on the bike. Do you still need me to keep an eye out in our routes and share them if we get the problem?
@guidomm - I’m out all day today and tomorrow on the bike. Do you still need me to keep an eye out in our routes and share them if we get the problem?
Quote from Guido on 12.07.2025, 01:16Only if you get an unnecessary announcement at a via point that's NOT a 'keep left' or 'keep right'.
Only if you get an unnecessary announcement at a via point that's NOT a 'keep left' or 'keep right'.
Quote from Dae on 12.07.2025, 02:08Quote from Guido on 12.07.2025, 01:16Only if you get an unnecessary announcement at a via point that's NOT a 'keep left' or 'keep right'.
I’ll pay attention, but never had one that isn’t since I first mentioned the issue in April - about 4,000 miles of testing
Quote from Guido on 12.07.2025, 01:16Only if you get an unnecessary announcement at a via point that's NOT a 'keep left' or 'keep right'.
I’ll pay attention, but never had one that isn’t since I first mentioned the issue in April - about 4,000 miles of testing
