Sorry Guido, I really think 3 has issues

#1 · 13.11.2021, 09:18

Quote from Maxodo on 13.11.2021, 09:18
I'm so sorry Guido, I was a big fan of Scenic 2 and have always recommended it and praised it but I am frustrated by what has been done to Scenic in the upgrade to 3. It’s only because I loved it so much that I am equally so annoyed now.

Hopefully as a lifetime subscriber I am able to legitimately make some complaints and look forward to your response as this app for me now is almost unusable.

I can only find one thing that is a step forward and that is when making a route not having to tap the waypoint before to add one in front.

Other than that the user experience in both planning routes and navigating is a step *back* and so annoying.

1). The deletion of the wheel (that was so much quicker and more accessible) and moving the menu to the top left as far as possible away from most people’s right thumbs.

Please consider bringing back the wheel or at least moving the menu to the bottom.

2). The font for the nav screen is far too bold and heavy, I'm guessing most bikers are 45-55 with no longer perfect close up eyesight and the lower text (distance, time etc) merges into one black blob almost, it’s very hard to see the figures.

In addition the speedometer is too small and difficult to read clearly and quickly.

Please give a clearer ‘thinner’ font.

3) The 'next turn' at top left is again too heavy and seems to mostly show the next waypoint in a circle or randomly an arrow or roundabout etc - please get rid of the WP in a circle - it serves no purpose and is distracting especially if like me you have many WPs to avoid route errors as much as possible. You can see in the screenshots that I get a WP symbol instead of a turn arrow even this close to a junction.

Please delete the WP element.

4). Map detail - again very sorry and this is a big one but the new mapping is terrible, most of the time I have a bare screen with the route line and nothing else. Occasionally you can make out faint lines for other roads. How can this be an upgrade over 2?

5). Voice options. As mentioned last week the deletion of the other English voice options (Indian etc) is a real shame. As is the voice speed option (now removed) and the voice level – up to 100% is not high enough. The new voices are very un-natural and out of date.

6). Voice commands. These seem even more random that before. I would estimate I had a voice command at maybe no more than 60% of junctions and often it would give me the voice command for the *next* junction to follow exactly as I reached the present one.

7). Speed limit warnings – maybe worked once when way over the national speed limit, despite setting at threshold 37 and 5 lower, 10 upper. Does not work.

8). The issues discussed in the other topic, route list is very hard to scroll down quickly, needs a text only option in a list that uses most of the phone screen.

9). Other minor issues - mostly navigating around the app - sometimes you can tap behind a window to go back, with other options/screen you need to click a X or arrow - not consistent and frustrating. There are often more steps to follow to achieve something, ie before when ending a ride or stopping nav it automatically asked you if you wanted to save the ride, now you need to go in another screen or take another step.

Again, I am sorry Guido, I know you have put a lot of time and effort into the app. I did put my name down for Beta testing but never was included and would have loved to have been able to realise all the issues before being forced into the ‘update’.

Please can you address the issues above.

I'm so sorry Guido, I was a big fan of Scenic 2 and have always recommended it and praised it but I am frustrated by what has been done to Scenic in the upgrade to 3. It’s only because I loved it so much that I am equally so annoyed now.

Hopefully as a lifetime subscriber I am able to legitimately make some complaints and look forward to your response as this app for me now is almost unusable.

I can only find one thing that is a step forward and that is when making a route not having to tap the waypoint before to add one in front.

Other than that the user experience in both planning routes and navigating is a step *back* and so annoying.

1). The deletion of the wheel (that was so much quicker and more accessible) and moving the menu to the top left as far as possible away from most people’s right thumbs.

Please consider bringing back the wheel or at least moving the menu to the bottom.

2). The font for the nav screen is far too bold and heavy, I'm guessing most bikers are 45-55 with no longer perfect close up eyesight and the lower text (distance, time etc) merges into one black blob almost, it’s very hard to see the figures.

In addition the speedometer is too small and difficult to read clearly and quickly.

Please give a clearer ‘thinner’ font.

3) The 'next turn' at top left is again too heavy and seems to mostly show the next waypoint in a circle or randomly an arrow or roundabout etc - please get rid of the WP in a circle - it serves no purpose and is distracting especially if like me you have many WPs to avoid route errors as much as possible. You can see in the screenshots that I get a WP symbol instead of a turn arrow even this close to a junction.

Please delete the WP element.

4). Map detail - again very sorry and this is a big one but the new mapping is terrible, most of the time I have a bare screen with the route line and nothing else. Occasionally you can make out faint lines for other roads. How can this be an upgrade over 2?

5). Voice options. As mentioned last week the deletion of the other English voice options (Indian etc) is a real shame. As is the voice speed option (now removed) and the voice level – up to 100% is not high enough. The new voices are very un-natural and out of date.

6). Voice commands. These seem even more random that before. I would estimate I had a voice command at maybe no more than 60% of junctions and often it would give me the voice command for the *next* junction to follow exactly as I reached the present one.

7). Speed limit warnings – maybe worked once when way over the national speed limit, despite setting at threshold 37 and 5 lower, 10 upper. Does not work.

8). The issues discussed in the other topic, route list is very hard to scroll down quickly, needs a text only option in a list that uses most of the phone screen.

9). Other minor issues - mostly navigating around the app - sometimes you can tap behind a window to go back, with other options/screen you need to click a X or arrow - not consistent and frustrating. There are often more steps to follow to achieve something, ie before when ending a ride or stopping nav it automatically asked you if you wanted to save the ride, now you need to go in another screen or take another step.

Again, I am sorry Guido, I know you have put a lot of time and effort into the app. I did put my name down for Beta testing but never was included and would have loved to have been able to realise all the issues before being forced into the ‘update’.

Please can you address the issues above.

#2 · 16.11.2021, 05:23

Any thoughts Guido?

#3 · 16.11.2021, 08:52

Quote from Guido on 16.11.2021, 08:52
Hi Max,

I was on a motorcycle trip myself this weekend and wanted to give this message some time to sink in.

I understand the disappointment and I know Scenic 3 is a big change. I want you to know that none of these changes were made because 'I felt like it'. All of these changes were made based on user feedback received over the lifetime of Scenic 2, some were made due to external factors, the biggest being the 'old' map provider discontinuing its product and even others were made to prepare Scenic for future additions.

Having said that, I know Scenic 3 has teething problems, and I'm working very hard on resolving them.

Now, to your points:

1). The deletion of the wheel

It's true that the wheel was better reachable with thumbs and it set Scenic apart from other apps. But, it also took up a lot of screen space and, as menu items have been and will be added in the future, the side menu makes more sense and gives better overview of all menu items available. It's also personal preference. Some people loved the wheel, others hated it. Can't make everybody happy I'm afraid.

2). The font for the nav screen

I have received quite some feedback about this. About 95% asking me to make the fonts even bigger and bolder. Again, can't make everybody happy with this one. I will be making some minor adjustment to this, especially for the smaller devices in landscape mode the next street/road name is taking up too much space.

3) The 'next turn' at top... ... seems to mostly show the next waypoint

Has been addressed for the most part in the latest update

4). Map detail

Improvement coming: https://scenic.app/forum/topic/visibility-of-new-maps-while-riding/#postid-2214

5). Voice options.

Already discussed. Can't change this.

6). Voice commands.

Have not heard this before nor did it come forward during beta test. Do you have any specific examples/places where this happened so I can try and simulate/reproduce on my side here? There is one big difference between S2 and S3. S3 will no longer give instructions when you follow the natural course of the road. Including if you go straight on a junction. This was one big feedback point of S2. People didn't like that and got confused getting instructions when they just needed to follow the road.

7). Speed limit warnings

This too, I have not heard before nor did it come forward during beta test. I even tried this myself again this morning while driving my kids to school, and it worked as designed. Again, there is a difference between S2 and S3. S3 will not say "Watch your speed", but you will hear 3 beeps/dings when you are above threshold (in addition to the visual red message on top of screen saying 'watch your speed'). Overall S3 has much better and more complete speed limit data than S2, but perhaps in your region this is not the case. You can see if Scenic knows the speed limit in the speedometer. If the speed limit is not known, the ring in the speedometer is yellow. If it is known the ring is either green (if you're not speeding) or red (if you are speeding).

8). hard to scroll down quickly in route/ride/location list

Discussed in the other topic

9). Other minor issues

I agree and over time will be making some improvement to this. It's not a priority at the moment though, and I also believe it takes some getting used to.

As always I appreciate the feedback, even though it's sometimes hard to hear. And please know that, like with Scenic 2, all this feedback will again weigh in for future updates, and the bigger things for the next major iteration, Scenic 4.

Best regards,
Guido

Hi Max,

I was on a motorcycle trip myself this weekend and wanted to give this message some time to sink in.

I understand the disappointment and I know Scenic 3 is a big change. I want you to know that none of these changes were made because 'I felt like it'. All of these changes were made based on user feedback received over the lifetime of Scenic 2, some were made due to external factors, the biggest being the 'old' map provider discontinuing its product and even others were made to prepare Scenic for future additions.

Having said that, I know Scenic 3 has teething problems, and I'm working very hard on resolving them.

Now, to your points:

1). The deletion of the wheel

It's true that the wheel was better reachable with thumbs and it set Scenic apart from other apps. But, it also took up a lot of screen space and, as menu items have been and will be added in the future, the side menu makes more sense and gives better overview of all menu items available. It's also personal preference. Some people loved the wheel, others hated it. Can't make everybody happy I'm afraid.

2). The font for the nav screen

I have received quite some feedback about this. About 95% asking me to make the fonts even bigger and bolder. Again, can't make everybody happy with this one. I will be making some minor adjustment to this, especially for the smaller devices in landscape mode the next street/road name is taking up too much space.

3) The 'next turn' at top... ... seems to mostly show the next waypoint

Has been addressed for the most part in the latest update

4). Map detail

Improvement coming: https://scenic.app/forum/topic/visibility-of-new-maps-while-riding/#postid-2214

5). Voice options.

Already discussed. Can't change this.

6). Voice commands.

Have not heard this before nor did it come forward during beta test. Do you have any specific examples/places where this happened so I can try and simulate/reproduce on my side here? There is one big difference between S2 and S3. S3 will no longer give instructions when you follow the natural course of the road. Including if you go straight on a junction. This was one big feedback point of S2. People didn't like that and got confused getting instructions when they just needed to follow the road.

7). Speed limit warnings

This too, I have not heard before nor did it come forward during beta test. I even tried this myself again this morning while driving my kids to school, and it worked as designed. Again, there is a difference between S2 and S3. S3 will not say "Watch your speed", but you will hear 3 beeps/dings when you are above threshold (in addition to the visual red message on top of screen saying 'watch your speed'). Overall S3 has much better and more complete speed limit data than S2, but perhaps in your region this is not the case. You can see if Scenic knows the speed limit in the speedometer. If the speed limit is not known, the ring in the speedometer is yellow. If it is known the ring is either green (if you're not speeding) or red (if you are speeding).

8). hard to scroll down quickly in route/ride/location list

Discussed in the other topic

9). Other minor issues

I agree and over time will be making some improvement to this. It's not a priority at the moment though, and I also believe it takes some getting used to.

As always I appreciate the feedback, even though it's sometimes hard to hear. And please know that, like with Scenic 2, all this feedback will again weigh in for future updates, and the bigger things for the next major iteration, Scenic 4.

Best regards,
Guido

If you're enjoying Scenic and are happy with the support, please leave a nice rating in the App Store. It would mean a lot to me ❤️

#4 · 16.11.2021, 09:38

Thank you Guido.

I fully understand that it is not nice to receive criticism, I hope it is taken as mostly constructive even though I was a little grumpy when posting. As I have said in the past I believed Scenic was the best 'accessory' money any motorcyclist can spend to enhance their riding. 🙂

Regarding points:

1) It's not possible to relocate it to the bottom left?

2) I too would like it bigger but thinner too not even more bold/thicker - if you look at my first screenshot do you not think the "1h29m" with 50 year old eyes and especially bumping along the road merges into itself a bit? The same space taken up by a larger but thinner font is much more clear. Is it possible to add options for this?

6) I would say about 30% of T junctions turns I got no instruction but I will make notes next time out and update.

7) Speeometer size and warnings - I will again try and test this some more. Will you consider changing the speedo size too (larger!)?

And once again to thank you for your work and attentiveness to us all. I have too much time building routes in Scenic to swap to another nav app and feel a loyalty to it anyway.

#5 · 16.11.2021, 10:27

1) It's not possible to relocate it to the bottom left?

Everything is possible of course. But I want to have the button to access the menu at the same place everywhere. And top left or top right is the most natural / place for it since that's where the title bar is mostly too. Bottom left/right would mean it be a floating button over the route/ride/location list. Furthermore, yes moving this button to the bottom would make it easier to one-handedly open the side menu, but then you'd still need to move your hand to choose an option from the menu.

2) I too would like it bigger but thinner too not even more bold/thicker & 7) Speedometer

I think it might be the font type. Let me play around with this. I'm 45 years old and still in denial of needing reading glasses 🙂.

If you're enjoying Scenic and are happy with the support, please leave a nice rating in the App Store. It would mean a lot to me ❤️

#6 · 16.11.2021, 10:32

6) I would say about 30% of T junctions turns I got no instruction but I will make notes next time out and update.

This might be related to point 3... and thus resolved for the most part.

If you're enjoying Scenic and are happy with the support, please leave a nice rating in the App Store. It would mean a lot to me ❤️

#7 · 16.11.2021, 14:36

Thanks Guido.

#8 · 17.11.2021, 07:09

For reaching the top corners of your Iphone with one hand Apple has invented the Reachability option. You can enable/disable this option in your iphone settings under Accessability -> Touch -> Reachability. If the option is enabled you can swipe down on the bottom of the screen and it will bring the top of the screen in reach.

Hope this helps for now.

Joerg400 has reacted to this post.

#9 · 26.12.2021, 18:28

Please make the navigation vehicle / icon much bigger. I would recommend a big triangle with point so there is no confusion which direction you're traveling.

#10 · 26.12.2021, 18:46

Ok. Will add it to the list.

If you're enjoying Scenic and are happy with the support, please leave a nice rating in the App Store. It would mean a lot to me ❤️

#11 · 25.03.2022, 02:33

I do not agree with most feedback of user Kam.

After Tenth of thousands of km with Scenic 1, 2 and now 3, I can only tell that Scenic is getting better and better. The remarks are based on personal preferences of mister Kam and should not be seen as the wish of all users.
One example is the wheel, which was nice in version 2, but irritates after a while, especially when you see how nice and easy this is integrated and is working in version 3. It is only about change, and change irritates some users like mister Kam. You can see this in his second reply where the irritation becomes more constructive.

If you are change averse, please wait 10.000 usage km before giving feedback.

Guido, you are doing great work. Don’t your weekend be influenced by single feedback. Thanks for what you realized and how you are making my traveling safe and relax.