Route Duration Overestimation - Send in your examples
Quote from Guido on 02.04.2025, 12:26Hi everyone, I need your help!
The map provider is working on a solution for the route duration overestimation issue. They are getting close, and want to test the effect of their changes. To do that, they are asking for routes where the overestimation is really clear. I want to provide them with as many routes as possible so that their fix will work in as many scenarios, regions, and roads as possible. Therefore, I'd like to ask the following:
If you find that a route duration is wildly overestimated, could you provide:
- A link to that route in Scenic. To do this select the route from your route list > 3 dots button top right > share link.
- If possible, recreate the route in Google Maps, and copy paste the Google Maps url from your browser address bar.
- Mention the distance of the route, duration in Scenic, and duration in Google Maps.I know it's a big ask, but if you could find the time, it would really help in getting this nasty bug fixed. If you're not comfortable sharing your route on the forum, feel free to send me a direct email using the email button at the bottom of https://scenic.app/help
Thank you and best regards,
Guido
Hi everyone, I need your help!
The map provider is working on a solution for the route duration overestimation issue. They are getting close, and want to test the effect of their changes. To do that, they are asking for routes where the overestimation is really clear. I want to provide them with as many routes as possible so that their fix will work in as many scenarios, regions, and roads as possible. Therefore, I'd like to ask the following:
If you find that a route duration is wildly overestimated, could you provide:
- A link to that route in Scenic. To do this select the route from your route list > 3 dots button top right > share link.
- If possible, recreate the route in Google Maps, and copy paste the Google Maps url from your browser address bar.
- Mention the distance of the route, duration in Scenic, and duration in Google Maps.
I know it's a big ask, but if you could find the time, it would really help in getting this nasty bug fixed. If you're not comfortable sharing your route on the forum, feel free to send me a direct email using the email button at the bottom of https://scenic.app/help
Thank you and best regards,
Guido
Quote from Paul on 02.04.2025, 12:53Hi Guido,
I shared a 524km 4 days round tour route (Sierra Nevada Spain) from Malaga that I plan to ride in May. It states a total duration of 13hrs 20m. Also shared the same as track - almost same distance 522km but approximately half duration 6hrs 31m. The latter number seems more realistic and aligned with Kurviger and Google MapsFood for thoughtBRPaul
Hi Guido,
I shared a 524km 4 days round tour route (Sierra Nevada Spain) from Malaga that I plan to ride in May. It states a total duration of 13hrs 20m. Also shared the same as track - almost same distance 522km but approximately half duration 6hrs 31m. The latter number seems more realistic and aligned with Kurviger and Google Maps
Quote from Dae on 02.04.2025, 12:56Scenic - 3h 7m - https://scenicapp.space/route/KepVTqTL
We rode this route on Saturday and it took 2h 11.
Whilst it only appears to be a difference of approximately 1h, that’s 50% extra time on a 2h journey.
This route has Scenic saying 4h19m, but we rode it in 2h41m (and we sat in traffic for on 2 occasions during the ride due to accidents, which isn’t normal, so it would have been more like 2h20m) - https://scenicapp.space/route/aLKilHKM
Scenic - 3h 7m - https://scenicapp.space/route/KepVTqTL
We rode this route on Saturday and it took 2h 11.
Whilst it only appears to be a difference of approximately 1h, that’s 50% extra time on a 2h journey.
This route has Scenic saying 4h19m, but we rode it in 2h41m (and we sat in traffic for on 2 occasions during the ride due to accidents, which isn’t normal, so it would have been more like 2h20m) - https://scenicapp.space/route/aLKilHKM
Quote from Guido on 02.04.2025, 12:58Hi @paul,
Where did you share this? (if you reply to a forum email I am not getting it). Could you resend to the email address behind the “email” button at the bottom of the help page? (Don’t want to mention my direct email in plain text here as scrapers can pull it like that).
Duration of tracks is calculated with avg speed of 80 km/h (as tracks don’t have knowledge of the underlying road network / the roads used).
Duration of routes is calculated by the map framework and that’s where the issue is
Thanks,
Guido
Hi @paul,
Where did you share this? (if you reply to a forum email I am not getting it). Could you resend to the email address behind the “email” button at the bottom of the help page? (Don’t want to mention my direct email in plain text here as scrapers can pull it like that).
Duration of tracks is calculated with avg speed of 80 km/h (as tracks don’t have knowledge of the underlying road network / the roads used).
Duration of routes is calculated by the map framework and that’s where the issue is
Thanks,
Guido
Quote from Paul on 02.04.2025, 13:11Hi Guido,
Here is the 4 day route Malaga / Sierra Nevada:
https://scenicapp.space/route/enqVzNlZ
and the same as track
https://scenicapp.space/route/rsfbXPot
/ Paul
Hi Guido,
Here is the 4 day route Malaga / Sierra Nevada:
https://scenicapp.space/route/enqVzNlZ
and the same as track
https://scenicapp.space/route/rsfbXPot
/ Paul
Quote from Paul on 02.04.2025, 13:21Track link again.
sorry for the messhttps://scenicapp.space/route/rsfbXPot
Track link again.
sorry for the mess
https://scenicapp.space/route/rsfbXPot
Quote from Guido on 02.04.2025, 13:39No problem. I can work with this.
Thanks Paul and thanks Dae!
No problem. I can work with this.
Thanks Paul and thanks Dae!
Quote from Guido on 03.04.2025, 00:34Thanks Patrick. Very helpful.
Thanks Patrick. Very helpful.
Quote from mattsz on 03.04.2025, 05:05Guido - what kind of overestimation are you looking for? I have a northern New England route that's about 130 miles, using a combination of back roads and highways. It's calculated as 3 hours 4 minutes in Scenic, and 2 hours 43 minutes in Google maps. Are you interested in this one?
Guido - what kind of overestimation are you looking for? I have a northern New England route that's about 130 miles, using a combination of back roads and highways. It's calculated as 3 hours 4 minutes in Scenic, and 2 hours 43 minutes in Google maps. Are you interested in this one?
Quote from Guido on 03.04.2025, 06:44I’d say that difference is still in the “acceptable”/“plausible” range. I’m looking for a bit more extreme differences. Let’s say, Scenic duration is 1.3 times (or more) higher than Google Maps/actual duration.
I’d say that difference is still in the “acceptable”/“plausible” range. I’m looking for a bit more extreme differences. Let’s say, Scenic duration is 1.3 times (or more) higher than Google Maps/actual duration.
Quote from smoeke on 03.04.2025, 08:23I got a route which took about 1h30m (97km) which was supposed to be 2h37m. I can send you the link via message/mail.
Unfortunately it was the drive which i lost due to the Carplay HMI to save/discard the recording. 😀
I got a route which took about 1h30m (97km) which was supposed to be 2h37m. I can send you the link via message/mail.
Unfortunately it was the drive which i lost due to the Carplay HMI to save/discard the recording. 😀
Quote from Guido on 03.04.2025, 15:12Thank you @smoeke. I received your route.
Thank you @smoeke. I received your route.
Quote from Karlchen on 06.04.2025, 02:09Hallo Guido,
Ich sende Ihnen gleich eine 1001 km lange Route.
Mit Scenic 21 Stunden und 9 Minuten, mit Kurviger 17 Stunden und 50 Minuten.
Hallo Guido,
Ich sende Ihnen gleich eine 1001 km lange Route.
Mit Scenic 21 Stunden und 9 Minuten, mit Kurviger 17 Stunden und 50 Minuten.
Quote from Rods on 06.04.2025, 03:55Hi Guido
https://scenicapp.space/route/dlAcxfch
This route was planned with a previous version of Scenic.
When I upload it into the latest version:
https://scenicapp.space/route/VrnGnPCM
Hi Guido
https://scenicapp.space/route/dlAcxfch
This route was planned with a previous version of Scenic.
When I upload it into the latest version:
https://scenicapp.space/route/VrnGnPCM
Quote from Karlchen on 08.04.2025, 11:52Hallo Guido,
Ich sende Ihnen gleich eine 1001 km lange Route.
Mit Scenic 21 Stunden und 9 Minuten, mit Kurviger 17 Stunden und 50 Minuten.
Hallo Guido,
Ich habe gerade neue Offline-Karten geladen.
Die Tour ist jetzt über 4 Stunden schneller als vorher.
👍
Aber auch 2km länger ohne Änderung.Ich habe nur die gespeicherte Tour geladen.
Aber auch geht es aufwärts.
Top, mach bitte weiter so….
Hallo Guido,
Ich sende Ihnen gleich eine 1001 km lange Route.
Mit Scenic 21 Stunden und 9 Minuten, mit Kurviger 17 Stunden und 50 Minuten.
Hallo Guido,
Ich habe gerade neue Offline-Karten geladen.
Die Tour ist jetzt über 4 Stunden schneller als vorher.
👍
Aber auch 2km länger ohne Änderung.
Ich habe nur die gespeicherte Tour geladen.
Aber auch geht es aufwärts.
Top, mach bitte weiter so….
Quote from Karlchen on 08.04.2025, 22:35Hallo Guido,
jetzt seit es mir so, dass die Touren zu schnell berechnet werden.
Ich sollte gerade für 12km durch die Innenstadt zur Arbeit nur 12 Minuten fahren. Das habe ich noch nie geschafft. Tatsächlich war ich 17 Minuten unterwegs.
Beste Grüße
Hallo Guido,
jetzt seit es mir so, dass die Touren zu schnell berechnet werden.
Ich sollte gerade für 12km durch die Innenstadt zur Arbeit nur 12 Minuten fahren. Das habe ich noch nie geschafft. Tatsächlich war ich 17 Minuten unterwegs.
Beste Grüße
Quote from Guido on 09.04.2025, 11:47Yesterday, the map provider released a new map version containing measures to make the route duration more realistic.
I’m happy to report a significant improvement, at least when looking at the example routes you provided.BEFORE, with the example routes, we had an average difference with Google Maps (taking Google Maps as the benchmark) of 50%. It was always an overestimation. In other words, the duration in Scenic was, on average, 1.5x the duration of Google Maps (again, using the example routes you provided and averaging the durations).
NOW, with the test routes, we have an average difference with Google Maps of 12%. (This is a mix of overestimation and underestimation). Please note, this is an average over the example routes. Your results may vary. It still depends on the region you are in, and how good the OSM data (especially speed data) is maintained in that region. If speed data is missing, some arbitrary default values are used.
IS IT PERFECT?
No. Definitely not! This is just the first "quick win" step towards a final solution. You will still find deviations compared to reality and other routing platforms. Sometimes these can still be significant. But... we are getting closer.NEXT STEPS FOR YOU?
- Update your offline maps (Side menu > Profile picture > Offline Maps > Update All)
- Your route list and route details will still display the old duration until you edit the route and save changes
- If you select a route for navigation or editing, the new duration will be used.NEXT STEPS FOR SCENIC?
Work with our map provider towards the final solution, which will use a mix of speed data from OSM, and, if speed data is missing, more accurate fallback speeds based on country/state/province and road type.Best regards,
Guido
Yesterday, the map provider released a new map version containing measures to make the route duration more realistic.
I’m happy to report a significant improvement, at least when looking at the example routes you provided.
BEFORE, with the example routes, we had an average difference with Google Maps (taking Google Maps as the benchmark) of 50%. It was always an overestimation. In other words, the duration in Scenic was, on average, 1.5x the duration of Google Maps (again, using the example routes you provided and averaging the durations).
NOW, with the test routes, we have an average difference with Google Maps of 12%. (This is a mix of overestimation and underestimation). Please note, this is an average over the example routes. Your results may vary. It still depends on the region you are in, and how good the OSM data (especially speed data) is maintained in that region. If speed data is missing, some arbitrary default values are used.
IS IT PERFECT?
No. Definitely not! This is just the first "quick win" step towards a final solution. You will still find deviations compared to reality and other routing platforms. Sometimes these can still be significant. But... we are getting closer.
NEXT STEPS FOR YOU?
- Update your offline maps (Side menu > Profile picture > Offline Maps > Update All)
- Your route list and route details will still display the old duration until you edit the route and save changes
- If you select a route for navigation or editing, the new duration will be used.
NEXT STEPS FOR SCENIC?
Work with our map provider towards the final solution, which will use a mix of speed data from OSM, and, if speed data is missing, more accurate fallback speeds based on country/state/province and road type.
Best regards,
Guido
Quote from Paul on 09.04.2025, 14:45Hi Guido,
Used Scenic today 2025-04-09 for a trip in southern Sweden:
Outbound curvy:
Planned Route: 159km 2h34min
Recorded track: 167km 2h25 min incl 10min stop and a small navigation issue due to road construction detour.
Return short / fast:
Planned Route: 137km 1h41min
Recorded Track: 136km 1h 58m (incl appr 10-15min fuel stop)
My conclusion:
Prediction of riding time fully acceptable!!
Great Progress
/ Paul
Hi Guido,
Used Scenic today 2025-04-09 for a trip in southern Sweden:
Outbound curvy:
Planned Route: 159km 2h34min
Recorded track: 167km 2h25 min incl 10min stop and a small navigation issue due to road construction detour.
Return short / fast:
Planned Route: 137km 1h41min
Recorded Track: 136km 1h 58m (incl appr 10-15min fuel stop)
My conclusion:
Prediction of riding time fully acceptable!!
Great Progress
/ Paul
Quote from Phil on 07.05.2025, 10:55Hi Guido
I too had the issue of over-long time estimates, and following your advice I updated all my maps.
The time estimates have changed significantly, but in my case - riding in southern England mostly on A and B roads, very few miles on dual carriageways, and avoiding motorways - now seem to be overly optimistic!Examples from today’s ride:
Outbound Plan: 100 miles in 2h:17 mins which equates to 44 mph.
Reality: 98 miles in 2h:40 mins at 37 mph.Homebound plan: 96 miles in 1h:56 mins at 47 mph.
Reality: 96 miles in 2hr:27 mins at 39 mph.on trawling through my recorded rides, I seldom average less than 35 mph or more than 40 mph. So the estimates of 44 and 47 mph today were always looking over-optimistic!
I understand how hard you are working on this app and it’s still the best thing going, so please keep up the good work!!
When planning, I tend to stick to my own estimates so once I know the mileage, I know that at 35 mph a mile takes 1.72 minutes (10 miles in 17 minutes roughly). Hope this helps.
Phil D.
Hi Guido
I too had the issue of over-long time estimates, and following your advice I updated all my maps.
The time estimates have changed significantly, but in my case - riding in southern England mostly on A and B roads, very few miles on dual carriageways, and avoiding motorways - now seem to be overly optimistic!
Examples from today’s ride:
Outbound Plan: 100 miles in 2h:17 mins which equates to 44 mph.
Reality: 98 miles in 2h:40 mins at 37 mph.
Homebound plan: 96 miles in 1h:56 mins at 47 mph.
Reality: 96 miles in 2hr:27 mins at 39 mph.
on trawling through my recorded rides, I seldom average less than 35 mph or more than 40 mph. So the estimates of 44 and 47 mph today were always looking over-optimistic!
I understand how hard you are working on this app and it’s still the best thing going, so please keep up the good work!!
When planning, I tend to stick to my own estimates so once I know the mileage, I know that at 35 mph a mile takes 1.72 minutes (10 miles in 17 minutes roughly). Hope this helps.
Phil D.
Quote from Guido on 07.05.2025, 13:57Still working on it. The map update was a first step. See more details at my post #18 above.
Still working on it. The map update was a first step. See more details at my post #18 above.
Quote from sdk on 07.05.2025, 15:06Quote from Guido on 09.04.2025, 11:47NEXT STEPS FOR SCENIC?
Work with our map provider towards the final solution, which will use a mix of speed data from OSM, and, if speed data is missing, more accurate fallback speeds based on country/state/province and road type.Just for whom may be interested. Anyone can help making the map (and therefore the estimates) better, by correcting/add missing speed data to the map. The map can be edited with the "Go Map!!" app. Read the beginner guide and start fixing stuff around your area. Make sure not to put in assumptions and move stuff around based on how it looks on the satellite image (the image can be skewed, outdated, ...). But adding details to roads is fairly simple. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contribute_map_data
Mapping is actually a fun activity. And can be done with just the phone while waiting for the bus. (not as entertaining as instagram, but definitely more useful)
Quote from Guido on 09.04.2025, 11:47NEXT STEPS FOR SCENIC?
Work with our map provider towards the final solution, which will use a mix of speed data from OSM, and, if speed data is missing, more accurate fallback speeds based on country/state/province and road type.
Just for whom may be interested. Anyone can help making the map (and therefore the estimates) better, by correcting/add missing speed data to the map. The map can be edited with the "Go Map!!" app. Read the beginner guide and start fixing stuff around your area. Make sure not to put in assumptions and move stuff around based on how it looks on the satellite image (the image can be skewed, outdated, ...). But adding details to roads is fairly simple. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contribute_map_data
Mapping is actually a fun activity. And can be done with just the phone while waiting for the bus. (not as entertaining as instagram, but definitely more useful)
Quote from s_83 on 10.05.2025, 12:14I can tell you the reason for Germany: in Germany scenic is using footpaths, paths without solid surface and so on… then the Travel time is very long. If you correct the route and delete the forbidden ways: the time is fine.
I can tell you the reason for Germany: in Germany scenic is using footpaths, paths without solid surface and so on… then the Travel time is very long. If you correct the route and delete the forbidden ways: the time is fine.
Quote from dasherpr on 30.05.2025, 17:05Hi Guido,
Just planned a ride; made sure I have all the recent maps, nothing pending to update, etc.
Google Maps says it would be 2h46 = 166 mins
Scenic says 3h14 = 194 mins
Delta: ~17%.
Thing is, I always am about 5%-10% better than the Google times, making the Scenic times too long.
Location: NYC/NY State, USA. Riding: Mainly back roads/mountain roads, a mix of highway nearing the city.
Hi Guido,
Just planned a ride; made sure I have all the recent maps, nothing pending to update, etc.
Google Maps says it would be 2h46 = 166 mins
Scenic says 3h14 = 194 mins
Delta: ~17%.
Thing is, I always am about 5%-10% better than the Google times, making the Scenic times too long.
Location: NYC/NY State, USA. Riding: Mainly back roads/mountain roads, a mix of highway nearing the city.
Quote from Guido on 30.05.2025, 17:20I'm aware. Working on getting better estimates with the map provider.
I'm aware. Working on getting better estimates with the map provider.
Quote from Menoche on 19.08.2025, 18:33Hi Guido,
Here is one example:
Google map, 12h40: https://maps.app.goo.gl/NBBC5zwBQizHFMjcA?g_st=ic
Scenic, 18h44: https://scenicapp.space/route/TjCgpyvJPhil
Hi Guido,
Here is one example:
Google map, 12h40: https://maps.app.goo.gl/NBBC5zwBQizHFMjcA?g_st=ic
Scenic, 18h44: https://scenicapp.space/route/TjCgpyvJ
Phil
Quote from chupa88 on 20.08.2025, 07:42Here's a route that is 70 miles long and Google estimates 1hr 33min.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jSrtbJMZ3KtLzDVh8
Scenic is estimating 2hr 55min.
https://scenicapp.space/route/NfOMeBdh
Here's a route that is 70 miles long and Google estimates 1hr 33min.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jSrtbJMZ3KtLzDVh8
Scenic is estimating 2hr 55min.
https://scenicapp.space/route/NfOMeBdh
