Quote from Guido on 01.10.2024, 09:49

Long-press to manually choose where to add will be added back. Workaround until then... use route timeline to change order of waypoints.

Will have a look at second point.

Thanks

Quote from Kev450 on 03.10.2024, 07:49

Quote from Guido on 01.10.2024, 09:49

Long-press to manually choose where to add will be added back. Workaround until then... use route timeline to change order of waypoints.

Will have a look at second point.

Thanks

Ok, also found two other annoying things.

The map is very cluttered and makes it hard to read, see attached two photos, one of scenic and the other from google map as an example, planning motorcycle routes requires to have easily readable name/number roads.

Other issue is the planned route hides the road name/number, also shown in one attached screenshot.

[caption id="attachment_8201" align="alignnone" width="369"] Scenic cluttered.[/caption]

 

[caption id="attachment_8202" align="alignnone" width="369"] Clean Google Maps with very easy to read road numbers.[/caption]

 

[caption id="attachment_8203" align="alignnone" width="369"] Planned route hides road name/number.[/caption]

 

Quote from Kev450 on 04.10.2024, 16:54

Quote from Guido on 01.10.2024, 09:49

Long-press to manually choose where to add will be added back. Workaround until then... use route timeline to change order of waypoints.

Will have a look at second point.

Thanks

Cluttered map, road names/numbers are very hard to read! Road numbers should at least be on top of the planned route or else we don’t know what road the route is taking. They should be very distinctive, I mean as riders that’s what we’re looking for, roads…no? 🤔 Zoom a bit more and the hiking trails show up… 🤦🏻‍♂️
V4 sure feels like a step behind, as much as I didn’t like HERE maps, V3 worked a lot better 😞

Quote from Guido on 04.10.2024, 17:11

Improvement is coming

Quote from Kev450 on 05.10.2024, 08:03

Quote from Guido on 04.10.2024, 17:11

Improvement is coming

It is much needed! Can we get the range and time for via points as it was in V3, makes it easier to plan stops along the way.

Quote from clarkml72 on 05.10.2024, 19:21

Why have so many features that existed in scenic 3 gone missing in scenic 4. Why would a new version be released that has fewer features ready to go out of the box than the previous version?

why was this so rushed? Was it due to the other map provider contract ending and there was no choice but to just put this out and try to stream in the existing features for 3 to 4?

i’m sorry I know I am complaining but I had settled on scenic as my directional app and now I have to go use something else even though I’m paid through August 2025. It feels like I’ll have about four months left on my subscription before feature parody is even reached based on the FAQs in March 2025.

Quote from Kev450 on 05.10.2024, 19:38

Quote from Guido on 04.10.2024, 17:11

Improvement is coming

All this made me look into other apps and found some very interesting features! You may not recall I complained about HERE maps because the data is outdated or simply not present and I had suggested Google Maps and you said it wouldn’t be possible as you wanted the offline map feature, well you should look into this as I have seen them added as “layers”, from OSM to Michelin, TOM TOM, Google Maps and even Apple Maps to name a few, something to look into which would give a suited option to everyone!

Quote from Guido on 05.10.2024, 20:17

Trust me. I’ve looked into this and I am constantly looking into this. “Layers” is an option I’m considering for the future. For now, I’m working non stop to get all the missing features back.

 

as for explanation on why: https://scenic.app/scenic-4-faqs/

Quote from Dae on 06.10.2024, 02:27

Quote from Kev450 on 05.10.2024, 19:38

well you should look into this as I have seen them added as “layers”, from OSM to Michelin, TOM TOM, Google Maps and even Apple Maps to name a few, something to look into which would give a suited option to everyone!

That sounds like MRA. That’s the reason I plan in MRA and navigate with Scenic.

Being able to plan a route, spot coffee shops or fuel, flick to street view to check if a junction is dodgy (Mrs Dae only has little legs) or turn on Michelin maps to look for scenic roads, all within the same browser window is fantastic.

Quote from mattsz on 06.10.2024, 03:19

Quote from Dae on 06.10.2024, 02:27

That sounds like MRA. That’s the reason I plan in MRA and navigate with Scenic.

MRA is...? Motorcycle Rider's Association?

EDIT: never mind, you must mean "MyRoute-App"...

Quote from Kev450 on 06.10.2024, 14:01

Quote from Dae on 06.10.2024, 02:27

Quote from Kev450 on 05.10.2024, 19:38

well you should look into this as I have seen them added as “layers”, from OSM to Michelin, TOM TOM, Google Maps and even Apple Maps to name a few, something to look into which would give a suited option to everyone!

That sounds like MRA. That’s the reason I plan in MRA and navigate with Scenic.

Being able to plan a route, spot coffee shops or fuel, flick to street view to check if a junction is dodgy (Mrs Dae only has little legs) or turn on Michelin maps to look for scenic roads, all within the same browser window is fantastic.

I tested a handful of navigation apps, MRA being one of them. I don’t get why you would plan in MRA and use Scenic for navigating, Scenic’s power planner is their strong point (without the bugs introduced in v4). HERE maps wasn’t the issue in Scenic v3 regarding outdated map, gps arrow lagging behind and etc, MRA uses HERE maps for navigating and none of these issues are present. MRA’s planner has multiple map choices but I still prefer Scenic’s structure for planning while MRA is better in navigating, feels more robust, like Google Maps or Apple Maps, more refined with lane guidance that pops up when needed which you can see in the attached screenshot (top left), POI’s, road numbers/names easily identified and etc, they also have a web version for desktop! Anyway, I’m hopeful that Scenic will find its way, sooner rather than later as I’d rather stay with Scenic.

Quote from Dae on 07.10.2024, 01:00

Quote from Kev450 on 06.10.2024, 14:01

. I don’t get why you would plan in MRA and use Scenic for navigating, Scenic’s power planner is their strong point (without the bugs introduced in v4). HERE maps wasn’t the issue in Scenic v3 regarding outdated map, gps arrow lagging behind and etc, MRA uses HERE maps for navigating and none of these issues are present. MRA’s planner has multiple map choices but I still prefer Scenic’s structure for planning while MRA is better in navigating, feels more robust, like Google Maps or Apple Maps, more refined with lane guidance that pops up when needed which you can see in the attached screenshot (top left), POI’s, road numbers/names easily identified and etc, they also have a web version for desktop! Anyway, I’m hopeful that Scenic will find its way, sooner rather than later as I’d rather stay with Scenic.

 

I don't want to take this thread off topic too much, but here's my reasoning.  You need to bear in mind that I have Gold planner MRA membership, MRA Navigator for life and Scenic for life licenses.  I have also been on the MRA beta programme since before MRA Next was released (Dec 2022), so am familiar with how it works.  My reasoning also relates to Scenic 3.5 - I can't use v4 until CarPlay comes back as I no longer have a way of mounting my phone, nor a desire to do so, and use CarPlay exclusively.

I last used MRA 2 days ago, as that's what I'm using until Scenic gets CarPlay back.

Why I prefer MRA Planning:

• I can use the Google overlays to see things like parking, food, fuel etc. without leaving the browser window.  I can also switch on the Michelin overlay to see scenic roads that may be of interest
• I can add "layover times" for each stop, which adjusts the ETA accordingly.  This is something that Basecamp (Garmin) has done for 10+ years, but can't be done in Scenic.  It's really important when trying to plan a full day's riding, especially if leading a group
• I can street view the junctions and carparks etc. to make sure there will be no surprises
• It's done in a web browser - I can use whatever device I have at hand, be it iPhone, MacOS, Windows or Android
• My non-Apple friends can collaborate
• I can combine/split/reverse routes easily
• I can compare routes with how TomTom/OSM would calculate, and add in extra shaping points to make sure my friends who have different navigation devices/apps get the same route calculation
• I can send the routes directly to a Garmin or TomTom for friends I'm riding with
• I can animate the route to share a tour with friends, so they can get a feel for where we'll be going.  This includes adding photos/text at each waypoint, so for example I could include a photo of the place we are visiting if it's not obvious
• Folder structure - you can have multiple sub folders etc.  This plays well with my organisation of routes

Why I navigate with Scenic

• The complete customisation of all colours in Scenic is the biggest winner.  MRA, even with the recently added selection of themes, is very hard to see. I really struggled at times on Saturday to see MRA.  I've never had this with Scenic
• Changing the zoom level in MRA when using CarPlay is an absolute ballache. It’s a doddle in Scenic
• Battery use.  2 days ago I used MRA for 5 hours and returned home to a phone battery of 27%.  Only 2 weeks ago I did a full week tour of 200+ miles each day (8 hours) using Scenic, and never arrived at a hotel with less that 40% battery.  That's 3 hours extra usage but with 13% less battery usage.  Yes, I could plug my phone in, but with Scenic I never have to
• I love the alternating ETA to layover/destination.  It makes it easy to answer "How far till lunch", or "When will we get to the hotel" simply by looking at the screen
• Until very recently MRA did not have your routes automatically sync to your phone
• CarPlay experience is superior in Scenic. Up until very recently you couldn't even look in your route library for a route and start it navigating using MRA on CarPlay - you could only start routes from the phone
• Detour behaviour - MRA doesn't have the option to say a road is blocked for x miles
• MRA doesn't handle going online/offline very well, even though I have offline maps downloaded.  That's important as many of the areas I ride have no signal
• Even 2 days ago MRA has issues with the pointer lagging behind when navigating.  It's reported on the forum but not yet fixed
• Developer response - there's issues in MRA that have been there for over a year but still not fixed.  Guido is super-responsive and it doesn't usually take long for fixes to be implemented
• Shared route navigation - me and my wife create routes and share them with each other.  They immediately show up in Scenic for selection to navigate, and if the owner makes changes the other person sees them.  This isn't so simple in MRA (or wasn't when I last messed around with groups and events)
• Ride recording is just easier.  MRA even needs manually stopping when arriving at a destination, whereas at least Scenic prompts you to stop navigating and save your ride
• Customisation of app settings - there's far more options to make Scenic work just how I like it.  MRA doesn't offer much

What I wish Scenic did that MRA does

• When navigating - take into account per-stop layover times when calculating the ETA to later stops or destination (e.g. a 1 hour lunch stop pushes subsequent ETAs back by 1 hour). This would mean that Scenic planner would also have to support it
• All the planning stuff I've mentioned as being reasons I use MRA Planner

I’d love to be able to make users joint owners of a route, so we can both collaborate and edit them  My wife and I currently do all our planning in MRA and then one of us exports it to Scenic and shares it with the other person. We have to remember who did the import and sharing as only that person can modify the route.

The "junction view" in MRA is not something that really interests me.  My Zumo from 2009 had similar functionality, but I've never really found I've needed it.  Sure, some people may like it, but I'm ambivalent so haven't factored it into my decisions.

Quote from HighPeakRider on 07.10.2024, 03:25

I had MRA, i just found it to confusing with all the options and ways to do things, I prefer the simple single app solution I have now although I’ll have to work round the carplay issues for now.

Luckily I have an old iphone I can use on a quadlock mount.

Quote from Kev450 on 07.10.2024, 07:53

I did notice how power hungry MRA is, just for that I can’t use it when I do full days of riding and besides, as stated I prefer Scenic for many reasons, ease of use (before v4), power planner, sharing, screen saver to name a few. Scenic just needs to iron out the bugs from switching map providers as it’s missing speed limit zones, via distance/time, needs to have easily readable road names/numbers, the itinerary layer also needs to be under the road names/numbers as it currently is above making names/numbers unreadable on your trajectory. When you back out or save a route you’re editing, the route stays on screen and you need to “clear route” from an icon on the bottom right, hopefully it wasn’t meant to be this way as it’s an useless extra step. I don’t get the switch to OSM, it’s a step back, I mean it is free but you get what you pay for, it requires a lot of tweaking… As we approach winter our riding season is coming to an end here, hopefully by the start of next season Scenic will be usable. 🤞🏻