Power consumtion Scenic App?
Quote from johansw on 13.10.2021, 07:33I have just found out, it is quite convenient just to start the Scenic app in the morning if I am using the car during the day. In that way, I get a warning from my pocket every now and then: Watch your speed! 👌 The app need not be the active one, or the phone lit. It is just there, in the background helping me out 😁
My Question is then: What is the power consumption when just idling in the background all day, not being actively used?
I have just found out, it is quite convenient just to start the Scenic app in the morning if I am using the car during the day. In that way, I get a warning from my pocket every now and then: Watch your speed! 👌 The app need not be the active one, or the phone lit. It is just there, in the background helping me out 😁
My Question is then: What is the power consumption when just idling in the background all day, not being actively used?
Quote from Guido on 13.10.2021, 08:21Power consumption will be significant. Not as much as if it would be on screen all the time, but it is still using your GPS receiver in the phone. Apart from the screen itself, the GPS receiver is the biggest energy eater in your phone. So... I wouldn't recommend leaving Scenic running all the time.
Power consumption will be significant. Not as much as if it would be on screen all the time, but it is still using your GPS receiver in the phone. Apart from the screen itself, the GPS receiver is the biggest energy eater in your phone. So... I wouldn't recommend leaving Scenic running all the time.
Quote from johansw on 14.10.2021, 13:53Thanks a lot Guido 🙂
I thought it might be so, but then again I think various other apps keep track on me more or less continously (!), so Scenic is just using information already downloaded.. I have of course no scientific proof to show, just tried som logic thoughts. Because when I let Scenic run in the background, I did not experience a big change in power lever, even though Scenic moved up to first place in the battery consumption overview on my phone..
Just for the sake of it, I will try out my theory a bit :-))
Thanks a lot Guido 🙂
I thought it might be so, but then again I think various other apps keep track on me more or less continously (!), so Scenic is just using information already downloaded.. I have of course no scientific proof to show, just tried som logic thoughts. Because when I let Scenic run in the background, I did not experience a big change in power lever, even though Scenic moved up to first place in the battery consumption overview on my phone..
Just for the sake of it, I will try out my theory a bit :-))
Quote from Joerg400 on 14.10.2021, 15:30A very interessting question for me, too!
I think there are at least two diffrent levels of consumption. One, staying in the background without needing gps. And a second, using gps. During a "test-navigation" I had the situation that i let my iPhone in the topcase, because I only drived a few 100 meters from the gasstation to a bakery. Suddenly I heared Scenic: " ... in 200 meters ... ". And! If you stay a little bit longer at the same place, Scenic want to know: "Continouing Navigation?", what you have not to answer, after some distance Scenic continues itself.
A very interessting question for me, too!
I think there are at least two diffrent levels of consumption. One, staying in the background without needing gps. And a second, using gps. During a "test-navigation" I had the situation that i let my iPhone in the topcase, because I only drived a few 100 meters from the gasstation to a bakery. Suddenly I heared Scenic: " ... in 200 meters ... ". And! If you stay a little bit longer at the same place, Scenic want to know: "Continouing Navigation?", what you have not to answer, after some distance Scenic continues itself.
Quote from johansw on 14.10.2021, 15:42Reading your post, I guess you had an active route on your phone. And Scenice definitely continue as normal navigating in the background, also when not lit like yours in the top case. This is a nice feature when you e.g. use your phone for other tasks during a ride.
In my case, I have no set target. I just press the Start Ride - button, close the phone and the app keeps track of my whereabout and speed limit. No energy used for following a track. At least that is what I intend to test a little bit better, along with the power consumption. As I said, the Scenic app moved up to first place in the battery power consumption section, but first place among what? If total consumption in a period was a little, first place here is very little.. 🙂
Reading your post, I guess you had an active route on your phone. And Scenice definitely continue as normal navigating in the background, also when not lit like yours in the top case. This is a nice feature when you e.g. use your phone for other tasks during a ride.
In my case, I have no set target. I just press the Start Ride - button, close the phone and the app keeps track of my whereabout and speed limit. No energy used for following a track. At least that is what I intend to test a little bit better, along with the power consumption. As I said, the Scenic app moved up to first place in the battery power consumption section, but first place among what? If total consumption in a period was a little, first place here is very little.. 🙂
Quote from Joerg400 on 14.10.2021, 16:07Hi johansw,
I don't think that there is a great diffrence between "following a track" and an "active routing". Both have to control wether you are on a correct road and is your speed correct (known by the loaded maps) or not. Both have to compare your real position and gps.
But I do not know it! Once more: a very good question!
Therefor I am very interessted in Guidos answer(s)!
Hi johansw,
I don't think that there is a great diffrence between "following a track" and an "active routing". Both have to control wether you are on a correct road and is your speed correct (known by the loaded maps) or not. Both have to compare your real position and gps.
But I do not know it! Once more: a very good question!
Therefor I am very interessted in Guidos answer(s)!
Quote from Guido on 14.10.2021, 17:34Your screen in the biggest battery consumer by far. If the screen is off, your battery will last a lot longer. If Scenic (or any other navigation app) is on screen it uses a sh*tload of battery. First and foremost to illuminate / backlight the pixels on the screen. Also the GPU (which is reponsible for translating raw map data into roads, areas, rivers, etc...basically everything you see on the map) also has to work hard when the screen is on. When the screen is off, this 'translation of map data' is not done, so GPU is basically not in use.
The second biggest battery consumer is your GPS receiver. It doens't matter if you are navigating or just tracking. It doesn't matter if your screen is on or off. It doesn't even matter if you are moving or not (although iOS does put the GPS in a sort of 'lower-evergy' mode when no movement is detected for a while). The GPS receiver is basically always doing the same thing which is receiving signals from satellites overhead and translating that into coordinates (latitude, longitude) to give to apps who request those coordinates. Apps can control wether or not the GPS receiver should be on and how precise locations (coordinates) they need... less precision (e.g. +- 500 meters) means less energy drain... but navigation apps need very close to the highest precision (+- 1 to 10 meter) to be able to map your position correct on roads.
Scenic does use a little bit more power when you are navigation compared to tracking-only. Even if screen is off. That's because Scenic keeps track of where along the route you are so it can give voice instructions, speed warnings etc. And also so that it can pick up the visual instructions if you turn the screen back on. But honestly, compared to screen, GPU and GPS battery consumption, this is neglectable.
Now... to Johan's experiment. I'm actually also very curious. If you would want to make this a little bit 'scientific' perhaps you can run your phone without Scenic for a whole day (starting at 100% battery) and then check how much percentage you have left by the end of the day. Then do the same thing, same duration, same daily activities, same apps in background (but adding Scenic in navigation/tracking mode), and see how the percentage you have left on the end that day compares. I would be curious on the results.
Me personally... I wouldn't run Scenic in the background all the time if you're not navigating or tracking a ride. Sure... there are apps with location access all the time, but mostly those app turn precision to a low value (thus lower energy consumption) when not actively used. Scenic, when tracking, is actively monitoring your location. Even if you are not moving (because it needs to pause tracking if your location is not changing for more than x seconds, and auto-resume tracking if you are farther away than x meters from the pause location). There is one exception... when you manually pause a ride, you can choose to turn off the GPS. If you do that, you can leave Scenic running and it won't use much battery at all. However you would manually have to resume ride tracking (which also turns back on the GPS receiver).
Hope I didn't make things more confusing 🙂
OH... one more IMPORTANT thing. Scenic should have 'Always' location access if you'd want to do this. If Scenic only has 'When in use' location access, iOS will automatically turn off the GPS receiver after a certain time (anywhere between 5 minutes and 30 minutes) of not moving, and it won't turn itself back on unless you bring Scenic back on screen again.
Your screen in the biggest battery consumer by far. If the screen is off, your battery will last a lot longer. If Scenic (or any other navigation app) is on screen it uses a sh*tload of battery. First and foremost to illuminate / backlight the pixels on the screen. Also the GPU (which is reponsible for translating raw map data into roads, areas, rivers, etc...basically everything you see on the map) also has to work hard when the screen is on. When the screen is off, this 'translation of map data' is not done, so GPU is basically not in use.
The second biggest battery consumer is your GPS receiver. It doens't matter if you are navigating or just tracking. It doesn't matter if your screen is on or off. It doesn't even matter if you are moving or not (although iOS does put the GPS in a sort of 'lower-evergy' mode when no movement is detected for a while). The GPS receiver is basically always doing the same thing which is receiving signals from satellites overhead and translating that into coordinates (latitude, longitude) to give to apps who request those coordinates. Apps can control wether or not the GPS receiver should be on and how precise locations (coordinates) they need... less precision (e.g. +- 500 meters) means less energy drain... but navigation apps need very close to the highest precision (+- 1 to 10 meter) to be able to map your position correct on roads.
Scenic does use a little bit more power when you are navigation compared to tracking-only. Even if screen is off. That's because Scenic keeps track of where along the route you are so it can give voice instructions, speed warnings etc. And also so that it can pick up the visual instructions if you turn the screen back on. But honestly, compared to screen, GPU and GPS battery consumption, this is neglectable.
Now... to Johan's experiment. I'm actually also very curious. If you would want to make this a little bit 'scientific' perhaps you can run your phone without Scenic for a whole day (starting at 100% battery) and then check how much percentage you have left by the end of the day. Then do the same thing, same duration, same daily activities, same apps in background (but adding Scenic in navigation/tracking mode), and see how the percentage you have left on the end that day compares. I would be curious on the results.
Me personally... I wouldn't run Scenic in the background all the time if you're not navigating or tracking a ride. Sure... there are apps with location access all the time, but mostly those app turn precision to a low value (thus lower energy consumption) when not actively used. Scenic, when tracking, is actively monitoring your location. Even if you are not moving (because it needs to pause tracking if your location is not changing for more than x seconds, and auto-resume tracking if you are farther away than x meters from the pause location). There is one exception... when you manually pause a ride, you can choose to turn off the GPS. If you do that, you can leave Scenic running and it won't use much battery at all. However you would manually have to resume ride tracking (which also turns back on the GPS receiver).
Hope I didn't make things more confusing 🙂
OH... one more IMPORTANT thing. Scenic should have 'Always' location access if you'd want to do this. If Scenic only has 'When in use' location access, iOS will automatically turn off the GPS receiver after a certain time (anywhere between 5 minutes and 30 minutes) of not moving, and it won't turn itself back on unless you bring Scenic back on screen again.
Quote from johansw on 15.10.2021, 03:25Thanks once again for your reply Guido, what you write makes sense and is clear and well understood 🙂
I have an extra iPhone X, ideal for this test, which I normally use for navigation only mounted on my Vespa mirror using QuadLock. It is now beeing charged to 100%.
And thanks for your advice on how-to-test 🙂 To start with, I thought I should do it the easy way, so here we go:
For my first test, I will shut down all apps except for Notes, restarte the phone and close down bluetooth, 4G and wifi, just leaving Scenic running in tracking mode only, screen off. I will be moving around, also checking power consumption percentage at, e.g, 1 hour intervals, test time some 4-5 hours. This should give me a clue.
For my second test, after a recharge as battery drain change throughout the discharge cycle, the only change will be leaving Scenic in navigation mode (setting up a target).
For my third test, I will repeat the second test, but this time with the screen lit.
For my fourth test, I will repeat the first test but shut down Scenic also.
Please tell me if I should change the procedure or something.. I guess I need a couple of days :-))
Johan
Thanks once again for your reply Guido, what you write makes sense and is clear and well understood 🙂
I have an extra iPhone X, ideal for this test, which I normally use for navigation only mounted on my Vespa mirror using QuadLock. It is now beeing charged to 100%.
And thanks for your advice on how-to-test 🙂 To start with, I thought I should do it the easy way, so here we go:
For my first test, I will shut down all apps except for Notes, restarte the phone and close down bluetooth, 4G and wifi, just leaving Scenic running in tracking mode only, screen off. I will be moving around, also checking power consumption percentage at, e.g, 1 hour intervals, test time some 4-5 hours. This should give me a clue.
For my second test, after a recharge as battery drain change throughout the discharge cycle, the only change will be leaving Scenic in navigation mode (setting up a target).
For my third test, I will repeat the second test, but this time with the screen lit.
For my fourth test, I will repeat the first test but shut down Scenic also.
Please tell me if I should change the procedure or something.. I guess I need a couple of days :-))
Johan
Quote from Guido on 15.10.2021, 04:00Sounds good to me Johan. Very curious about the results 🙂
Sounds good to me Johan. Very curious about the results 🙂
Quote from fxstein on 24.10.2021, 16:00One thing to consider: Heat. The iPhone 12 Pro Max got very warm with Scenic running - even without the screen - especially when in CarPlay mode (eg. on the new Goldwing with Scenic being the main GPS on the phone screen, and all other iOS functions like music, phone, texts and occasional Apple/Google Maps for fast station lookup during routes - on the Bike's main display). Riding in weather above 90-95F will dim and eventually overheat the phone. Just switched to the 13 Pro Max and so far so good, but the temps are now a lot lower in SoCal than in the summer.
In cars this becomes a problem when using a built-in wireless charger. Wireless charging by itself heats the phone substantially and especially in some BMWs and Audis (from rental experiences but probably others too) the wireless charger is inside the center console with no fresh air getting to it. 30-60 min later the phone will overheat. Not a problem of Scenic, just the fact that any extra load on the CPU/GPS will amplify temperature issues.
One thing to consider: Heat. The iPhone 12 Pro Max got very warm with Scenic running - even without the screen - especially when in CarPlay mode (eg. on the new Goldwing with Scenic being the main GPS on the phone screen, and all other iOS functions like music, phone, texts and occasional Apple/Google Maps for fast station lookup during routes - on the Bike's main display). Riding in weather above 90-95F will dim and eventually overheat the phone. Just switched to the 13 Pro Max and so far so good, but the temps are now a lot lower in SoCal than in the summer.
In cars this becomes a problem when using a built-in wireless charger. Wireless charging by itself heats the phone substantially and especially in some BMWs and Audis (from rental experiences but probably others too) the wireless charger is inside the center console with no fresh air getting to it. 30-60 min later the phone will overheat. Not a problem of Scenic, just the fact that any extra load on the CPU/GPS will amplify temperature issues.
Quote from johansw on 27.10.2021, 16:52I have now completed some 12 tests on my iPhone X, several for each category. The in category 1 – 4 listed results below are an average of these tests. I kept the phone charged between some 40% – 80%. Screen light was set to automatic and the majority of tests were done at day-time. Flight mode was on, BlueTooth switched off and apps apart from Notes and Scenic were closed.
1: Screen off, no target set: Average discharge 2,6% / hour.
2: Screen off, target set: Average discharge 3,4% / hour.
3: Screen on, no target set: Average discharge 13,1% / hour.
4: Screen on, target set: Average discharge 12,8% / hour.
Results for category 3 and 4 does not seem logic but surrounding light conditions varied and errors occur so I guess power consumption for these two are close to equal, as for 1 and 2.
I have now completed some 12 tests on my iPhone X, several for each category. The in category 1 – 4 listed results below are an average of these tests. I kept the phone charged between some 40% – 80%. Screen light was set to automatic and the majority of tests were done at day-time. Flight mode was on, BlueTooth switched off and apps apart from Notes and Scenic were closed.
1: Screen off, no target set: Average discharge 2,6% / hour.
2: Screen off, target set: Average discharge 3,4% / hour.
3: Screen on, no target set: Average discharge 13,1% / hour.
4: Screen on, target set: Average discharge 12,8% / hour.
Results for category 3 and 4 does not seem logic but surrounding light conditions varied and errors occur so I guess power consumption for these two are close to equal, as for 1 and 2.
Quote from Guido on 27.10.2021, 17:40Wow. This is great data Johan. Thank you so much!!! Very helpful.
So, if I may draw a small conclusion from this:- Navigating a route/destination vs tracking only, does not significantly increase/decrease battery drain
- Screen on vs screen off does increase battery drain significantlyI think that's a fair conclusion, would you agree?
Now that I know you are such a great tester... might I ask you for another test round? 🙂
In a few days Scenic 3 will be released... a complete redesign with new maps and new routing engine. I am really curious how that will do compared to Scenic 2. Would you be willing to do the same tests for Scenic 3?
Wow. This is great data Johan. Thank you so much!!! Very helpful.
So, if I may draw a small conclusion from this:
- Navigating a route/destination vs tracking only, does not significantly increase/decrease battery drain
- Screen on vs screen off does increase battery drain significantly
I think that's a fair conclusion, would you agree?
Now that I know you are such a great tester... might I ask you for another test round? 🙂
In a few days Scenic 3 will be released... a complete redesign with new maps and new routing engine. I am really curious how that will do compared to Scenic 2. Would you be willing to do the same tests for Scenic 3?
Quote from johansw on 28.10.2021, 02:32I do agree with your conclusion 🙂
And what started this was me wanting to let the Scenic app run in the background when driving my car without the need for route/destination and thereby getting a warning from my pocket every now and then: Watch your speed! :-)) This test show that this is absolutely possible, draining only some 3% +/- battery an hour. That is 24% in 8 hours (the same as Polarsteps), a full working day and maybe a fine or two saved :-))
And yes, I would absolutely like to copy my test on Scenic 3! Actually, I thought I should ask you for a beta-test version as the bike season now is over in Norway and I drive car only these days and therefore is not as much depending on an fully working navigation app 🙂
I do agree with your conclusion 🙂
And what started this was me wanting to let the Scenic app run in the background when driving my car without the need for route/destination and thereby getting a warning from my pocket every now and then: Watch your speed! :-)) This test show that this is absolutely possible, draining only some 3% +/- battery an hour. That is 24% in 8 hours (the same as Polarsteps), a full working day and maybe a fine or two saved :-))
And yes, I would absolutely like to copy my test on Scenic 3! Actually, I thought I should ask you for a beta-test version as the bike season now is over in Norway and I drive car only these days and therefore is not as much depending on an fully working navigation app 🙂
Quote from Guido on 28.10.2021, 08:26OK. Great 🙂
I didn't know you live in Normway. Now I understand better why you'd want this. Speeding fines are like 10% of your yearly salary there, right?
There's one thing you need to know about Scenic 3: it will not say 'Watch your speed' anymore. In stead it will give three short beeps. They are pretty distinguishable from any other sound your phone makes, but please let me know if that's not enough.Scenic 3 is almost in the App Store, so no more need for beta version. But... if you'd like I can add you as a beta tester for future versions. If so... drop me an email through the help page (at the bottom there's an 'email me' button).
OK. Great 🙂
I didn't know you live in Normway. Now I understand better why you'd want this. Speeding fines are like 10% of your yearly salary there, right?
There's one thing you need to know about Scenic 3: it will not say 'Watch your speed' anymore. In stead it will give three short beeps. They are pretty distinguishable from any other sound your phone makes, but please let me know if that's not enough.
Scenic 3 is almost in the App Store, so no more need for beta version. But... if you'd like I can add you as a beta tester for future versions. If so... drop me an email through the help page (at the bottom there's an 'email me' button).
Quote from johansw on 28.10.2021, 15:37The fines for speeding on the road are not quite that bad - 61-65 kmh in 50 zone cost you some 420 Euro. 71-75 some 930 Euro. Far too much, yes,, but speeding on the water is worse and close to what you mention!!
I am really looking forward to Scenic 3. Your teasers have done just that - teased me 🙂 Especially the new maps, ferry crossings and some routes not wanting to pass certain points on the map I am looking forward to check! I went some 5500 m to Nordkapp on my Vespa this summer, taking 18 ferries. I had a slight challenge there..
I will be back with Scenic 3 battery consumption tests 🙂
Johan
The fines for speeding on the road are not quite that bad - 61-65 kmh in 50 zone cost you some 420 Euro. 71-75 some 930 Euro. Far too much, yes,, but speeding on the water is worse and close to what you mention!!
I am really looking forward to Scenic 3. Your teasers have done just that - teased me 🙂 Especially the new maps, ferry crossings and some routes not wanting to pass certain points on the map I am looking forward to check! I went some 5500 m to Nordkapp on my Vespa this summer, taking 18 ferries. I had a slight challenge there..
I will be back with Scenic 3 battery consumption tests 🙂
Johan
Quote from Guido on 28.10.2021, 15:42Still huge amounts of money 🙄
Scenic 3 is in the App Store now. 🙂
Still huge amounts of money 🙄
Scenic 3 is in the App Store now. 🙂
