Loss of gps signal warnings
Quote from nick123123 on 23.06.2024, 15:02Hi
For the last few days I’ve seen many notifications in scenic beta saying “loss of gps Signal” . I even restarted phone . Still issues . Open roads. Is there a problem here. Very strange . Only started happening this week.scenic 3.61 (beta)
Hi
scenic 3.61 (beta)
Quote from Guido on 23.06.2024, 15:11Hi Nick,
You are not on the latest version (latest is 3.63), but I don’t believe that’s the issue. This sounds more like a hardware problem.
Over time I had about a dozen users (including myself a few years ago), that had this problem. Here is a forum post about it. https://scenic.app/forum/topic/iphone-11-bad-gps-reception-while-wirelessly-charging/
Also read the other topic this topic links to.
Hi Nick,
You are not on the latest version (latest is 3.63), but I don’t believe that’s the issue. This sounds more like a hardware problem.
Over time I had about a dozen users (including myself a few years ago), that had this problem. Here is a forum post about it. https://scenic.app/forum/topic/iphone-11-bad-gps-reception-while-wirelessly-charging/
Also read the other topic this topic links to.
Quote from Guido on 23.06.2024, 15:13Perhaps a phone shut down and restart could help. Worth a shot anyway.
Perhaps a phone shut down and restart could help. Worth a shot anyway.
Quote from nick123123 on 23.06.2024, 16:55Oh no. 😧 This week I installed a wireless quad lock charger to replace a usb cable! This is the problem . Oh hell. All that money and time installing. Wish I knew this before . I have an iPhone 11.
is it a problem with newer phones ? iPhone 12-15?
can you add a configuration in scenic ? Otherwise I need to rip out the charger.
Oh no. 😧 This week I installed a wireless quad lock charger to replace a usb cable! This is the problem . Oh hell. All that money and time installing. Wish I knew this before . I have an iPhone 11.
is it a problem with newer phones ? iPhone 12-15?
can you add a configuration in scenic ? Otherwise I need to rip out the charger.
Quote from Guido on 23.06.2024, 17:14Sorry... I can't configure Scenic for this. The reason why it gives you the "Bad GPS Signal" message is because the accuracy of the position is really considered bad. For Scenic, I put the threshold at 66 meters, which is more or less the standard. This means that if the accuracy drops below that, your position could be where indicated or 66 meters from that in either direction. This is too imprecise for navigation. Ideally, you would like 5 meters, which is reachable under normal circumstances.
Download the free app GPS Altimeter (no relation with that app). This will tell you the elevation, but also the raw value of the accuracy received. https://apps.apple.com/mx/app/altimeter-barometer/id541514339?l=en-GB It has some advertising, but you'll only use it occasionally. Perhaps then you can find out if you also have lowered accuracy without wireless charger. Normal values when outside should be around 5 m / 10 m.
As far as I know, this is not a structural issue with newer phones or even the iPhone 11. It's just bad luck. I would contact either QuadLock to try and get a refund, or perhaps even Apple, although your Apple warranty period has passed, no doubt.
Sorry... I can't configure Scenic for this. The reason why it gives you the "Bad GPS Signal" message is because the accuracy of the position is really considered bad. For Scenic, I put the threshold at 66 meters, which is more or less the standard. This means that if the accuracy drops below that, your position could be where indicated or 66 meters from that in either direction. This is too imprecise for navigation. Ideally, you would like 5 meters, which is reachable under normal circumstances.
Download the free app GPS Altimeter (no relation with that app). This will tell you the elevation, but also the raw value of the accuracy received. https://apps.apple.com/mx/app/altimeter-barometer/id541514339?l=en-GB It has some advertising, but you'll only use it occasionally. Perhaps then you can find out if you also have lowered accuracy without wireless charger. Normal values when outside should be around 5 m / 10 m.
As far as I know, this is not a structural issue with newer phones or even the iPhone 11. It's just bad luck. I would contact either QuadLock to try and get a refund, or perhaps even Apple, although your Apple warranty period has passed, no doubt.
Quote from nick123123 on 24.06.2024, 02:10Many thanks for replying and your suggestions. I will try the gps check app.
have any scenic users of the quad lock wireless charger here reported gps signal problems with new iPhones 12-15?
Many thanks for replying and your suggestions. I will try the gps check app.
have any scenic users of the quad lock wireless charger here reported gps signal problems with new iPhones 12-15?
Quote from nick123123 on 24.06.2024, 02:54Hiya
Does scenic use the iPhones compass function ? If so how?I’ve read turning off the compass function on iPhone can mitigate the problem as the wireless charging can interfere with the compass.
Hiya
Does scenic use the iPhones compass function ? If so how?
I’ve read turning off the compass function on iPhone can mitigate the problem as the wireless charging can interfere with the compass.
Quote from Guido on 24.06.2024, 06:09I don’t remember about other iPhones. In one of the topics an iPhone 13 is mentioned, but I would recommend doing some googling to get a better feel for this.
Compass is used indirectly by Scenic. Your iPhone uses “assisted GPS” which uses GPS receiver, compass and gyroscope. And all apps requesting location access get their locations from this “assisted GPS”.
I don’t remember about other iPhones. In one of the topics an iPhone 13 is mentioned, but I would recommend doing some googling to get a better feel for this.
Compass is used indirectly by Scenic. Your iPhone uses “assisted GPS” which uses GPS receiver, compass and gyroscope. And all apps requesting location access get their locations from this “assisted GPS”.
Quote from johansw on 24.06.2024, 07:39I use the iPhone 13 and QuadLock wireless charging. I have, but rarely and briefly, bad GPS signal, but I move around on difficult places as well so the "problem" is really no problem for me. This is advanced technology, we have to have some toleranse, I guess 🙂
Johan
I use the iPhone 13 and QuadLock wireless charging. I have, but rarely and briefly, bad GPS signal, but I move around on difficult places as well so the "problem" is really no problem for me. This is advanced technology, we have to have some toleranse, I guess 🙂
Johan
Quote from mattsz on 26.06.2024, 05:43Quote from nick123123 on 24.06.2024, 02:10have any scenic users of the quad lock wireless charger here reported gps signal problems with new iPhones 12-15?
Hi Nick -
I know it's not really an answer to your exact question, but since you haven't had much of a response, I thought I'd chime in with my single data point of experience. I use Quadlock's wirless charger with my iPhone XE (2nd generation, released in 2020) and I have never had any GPS signal issues...
Quote from nick123123 on 24.06.2024, 02:10have any scenic users of the quad lock wireless charger here reported gps signal problems with new iPhones 12-15?
Hi Nick -
I know it's not really an answer to your exact question, but since you haven't had much of a response, I thought I'd chime in with my single data point of experience. I use Quadlock's wirless charger with my iPhone XE (2nd generation, released in 2020) and I have never had any GPS signal issues...
Quote from nick123123 on 26.06.2024, 05:49Thanks for the reply . My iPhone 10 has a problem . Just ordered an iPhone 13 max so hopefully solves the issue - otherwise an expensive investment.
Thanks for the reply . My iPhone 10 has a problem . Just ordered an iPhone 13 max so hopefully solves the issue - otherwise an expensive investment.
Quote from johansw on 26.06.2024, 06:24Expensive, but worth it in my opinion. Did the same thing the other week - vast improvement all over, especially visibility of map etc 🙂
Johan
Expensive, but worth it in my opinion. Did the same thing the other week - vast improvement all over, especially visibility of map etc 🙂
Johan
Quote from DarrenS on 26.06.2024, 10:46Just came back from a two week to Germany from the UK, and for the second week had the GPS warnings every day (never had it before).
However my phone is always kept in the same place, bike is connected via wireless CarPlay adapter, and phone is never on charge when riding. So not sure what is causing the issue for me, but only started with 3.63.
In the end I had to switch to Apple Maps on the CarPlay screen, which never seemed to skip a beat, as Scenic just became a little too unreliable when getting the area at a junction.
(It is bad enough that scenic spins the map 180 degrees as a junction when you stop a lot of the time until you start moving again, so you cannot see where you plan to go very easy 🙁 )
Just came back from a two week to Germany from the UK, and for the second week had the GPS warnings every day (never had it before).
However my phone is always kept in the same place, bike is connected via wireless CarPlay adapter, and phone is never on charge when riding. So not sure what is causing the issue for me, but only started with 3.63.
In the end I had to switch to Apple Maps on the CarPlay screen, which never seemed to skip a beat, as Scenic just became a little too unreliable when getting the area at a junction.
(It is bad enough that scenic spins the map 180 degrees as a junction when you stop a lot of the time until you start moving again, so you cannot see where you plan to go very easy 🙁 )
Quote from Guido on 26.06.2024, 11:43Hi Darren,
Sorry to hear about the bad experience. Of course this could be a bug in Scenic, but to be honest, I doubt it. I would have received far more feedback.
Did something change between the first week and the second week?
Did the spinning also happen before you got the "bad gps reception"?It's possible that Apple Maps has a higher threshold for showing the "Bad GPS Message" (or doesn't have a message like that at all), and that their "road snapping" keeps the location on the road you are on.
Download this 1 USD app: https://apps.apple.com/mx/app/gps-data-speed-altitude/id1473090788
(the altimeter app I mentioned above shows only vertical accuracy so @nick123123, better to download this app.And next time you see the bad gps message, start this app and see what the horizontal accuracy value is (circled).
When outside, it should be around 5 meters. Scenic displays the BAD GPS message when horizontal accuracy goes over 66 meters.
Best regards,
Guido
Hi Darren,
Sorry to hear about the bad experience. Of course this could be a bug in Scenic, but to be honest, I doubt it. I would have received far more feedback.
Did something change between the first week and the second week?
Did the spinning also happen before you got the "bad gps reception"?
It's possible that Apple Maps has a higher threshold for showing the "Bad GPS Message" (or doesn't have a message like that at all), and that their "road snapping" keeps the location on the road you are on.
Download this 1 USD app: https://apps.apple.com/mx/app/gps-data-speed-altitude/id1473090788
(the altimeter app I mentioned above shows only vertical accuracy so @nick123123, better to download this app.
And next time you see the bad gps message, start this app and see what the horizontal accuracy value is (circled).
When outside, it should be around 5 meters. Scenic displays the BAD GPS message when horizontal accuracy goes over 66 meters.
Best regards,
Guido
Quote from DarrenS on 26.06.2024, 12:03Hi Guido.
The only change I am aware of between the 1st and 2nd week was I had a night of good wifi so I think Scenic updated to 3.63 and updated offline maps. For the first week I was on 3.62 (or whatever was before 3.63) I believe.
The map spinning has always been there and only occurs with Scenic (or at least does not with Apple or Google Maps) and seems to be when you stop at a junction with the map 'up' facing your direction, the whole map spins around 180 degrees so that 'up' is now where you have been. I've been meaning to raise it in a separate post for months, but this is the only time I have really used Scenic for navigation (albeit follow the line navigation) and first time I have been in strange place.
I'll have a look at that app, but to honest not sure how useful it will be. Mainly because the GPS error usually lasts for 10 seconds maximum, so by the time I manage to stop the bike somewhere safe, get my gloves etc off, get to the top box to take the phone out, unlock and load the app, I'll probably be back to 'good GPS'
ALTHOUGH - if it helps, I would say if I really think about it, the issue almost always occurred shortly after pulling away (from a junction or start of a ride) and I can never think if it occurring during an actual 'moving' time. So I wonder if it is linked to the spinning map. (and just to confirm the map does not keep spinning constantly, it is a 180 degree rotate and stop - then back 180 degrees once you move).
Hi Guido.
The only change I am aware of between the 1st and 2nd week was I had a night of good wifi so I think Scenic updated to 3.63 and updated offline maps. For the first week I was on 3.62 (or whatever was before 3.63) I believe.
The map spinning has always been there and only occurs with Scenic (or at least does not with Apple or Google Maps) and seems to be when you stop at a junction with the map 'up' facing your direction, the whole map spins around 180 degrees so that 'up' is now where you have been. I've been meaning to raise it in a separate post for months, but this is the only time I have really used Scenic for navigation (albeit follow the line navigation) and first time I have been in strange place.
I'll have a look at that app, but to honest not sure how useful it will be. Mainly because the GPS error usually lasts for 10 seconds maximum, so by the time I manage to stop the bike somewhere safe, get my gloves etc off, get to the top box to take the phone out, unlock and load the app, I'll probably be back to 'good GPS'
ALTHOUGH - if it helps, I would say if I really think about it, the issue almost always occurred shortly after pulling away (from a junction or start of a ride) and I can never think if it occurring during an actual 'moving' time. So I wonder if it is linked to the spinning map. (and just to confirm the map does not keep spinning constantly, it is a 180 degree rotate and stop - then back 180 degrees once you move).
Quote from SuperGraupe on 26.06.2024, 12:11I have the same issue with the Rotation map when I stop at a crossing.
It‘s difficult to find the right direction when my bike moves again.
But no bad gps issues.
Greetings,
Michael
I have the same issue with the Rotation map when I stop at a crossing.
It‘s difficult to find the right direction when my bike moves again.
But no bad gps issues.
Greetings,
Michael
Quote from Guido on 26.06.2024, 12:22Ah. 'Follow the line' navigation is the key here I believe.
If you are navigating with Turn by turn, the heading is determined by the route you are following and your position on it.
When Scenic is NOT navigating with turn by turn (follow the line or just tracking), your position and heading is purely determined by the locations received from the GPS, which also contain your heading. I'm guessing, when you are not moving (no direction of travel) the heading delivered by the GPS is probably determined by the compass in the phone. Where is your phone, or more importantly, in what direction is your phone placed in relation to the vehicle? With the charging port towards the front of the vehicle perhaps? That would explain the 180 degree spin.
This might also explain the bad gps reception when taking off, although not 100% sure. Perhaps the "sudden" change of heading upsets the GPS logic, and it sends a location with low accuracy, triggering the BAD GPS message.
Ah. 'Follow the line' navigation is the key here I believe.
If you are navigating with Turn by turn, the heading is determined by the route you are following and your position on it.
When Scenic is NOT navigating with turn by turn (follow the line or just tracking), your position and heading is purely determined by the locations received from the GPS, which also contain your heading. I'm guessing, when you are not moving (no direction of travel) the heading delivered by the GPS is probably determined by the compass in the phone. Where is your phone, or more importantly, in what direction is your phone placed in relation to the vehicle? With the charging port towards the front of the vehicle perhaps? That would explain the 180 degree spin.
This might also explain the bad gps reception when taking off, although not 100% sure. Perhaps the "sudden" change of heading upsets the GPS logic, and it sends a location with low accuracy, triggering the BAD GPS message.
Quote from DarrenS on 26.06.2024, 12:32Hmm Interesting.
I'll be honest, If I am actually navigating, I generally use Apple Maps for Navigation (voice in the background) but Scenic in the foreground with either follow the line or just recording. The reason I do this is that I often just pop in a rough destination but often change my mind, go off course, etc, and because you cannot remove the destination in scenic via CarPlay without stopping the route recording, I never really used it for actual navigation.
For example, when you change your mind in scenic on the phone and 'remove destination' you get the option to remove destination and stop ride, or remove destination and continue ride. With CarPlay limitations it only lets you 'remove and stop', not 'remove and continue'
Anyway, I digress.
As for phone location with the 180, I have actually tried it facing all directions and still get the same 180 degree, however your explanation makes sense as to why it happens (not sure why apple and google maps don't rotate when not navigating). It's a bit of a pain but I have just gotten into the happen of switching to apple or google maps when coming up to an unknown junction then back to scenic when I move again so not a big issue, fiddly but liveable.
As for the bad GPS - maybe it was down to location - I"ll be doing some long rides this weekend (back in the uk), so will keep an eye out to see it reoccurs.
Hmm Interesting.
I'll be honest, If I am actually navigating, I generally use Apple Maps for Navigation (voice in the background) but Scenic in the foreground with either follow the line or just recording. The reason I do this is that I often just pop in a rough destination but often change my mind, go off course, etc, and because you cannot remove the destination in scenic via CarPlay without stopping the route recording, I never really used it for actual navigation.
For example, when you change your mind in scenic on the phone and 'remove destination' you get the option to remove destination and stop ride, or remove destination and continue ride. With CarPlay limitations it only lets you 'remove and stop', not 'remove and continue'
Anyway, I digress.
As for phone location with the 180, I have actually tried it facing all directions and still get the same 180 degree, however your explanation makes sense as to why it happens (not sure why apple and google maps don't rotate when not navigating). It's a bit of a pain but I have just gotten into the happen of switching to apple or google maps when coming up to an unknown junction then back to scenic when I move again so not a big issue, fiddly but liveable.
As for the bad GPS - maybe it was down to location - I"ll be doing some long rides this weekend (back in the uk), so will keep an eye out to see it reoccurs.
Quote from Guido on 26.06.2024, 12:36OK. Let me know what you find. I'll also take a look at the code to see if I can find anything. Another theory is that it doesn't get a heading at all when not moving, and then it spins to Norht Up. Do you remember if it's always exactly 180 degrees? Or is it always spinning north up at junctions? In any case... I'll have a look.
Thanks for the details Darren. I appreciate it.
OK. Let me know what you find. I'll also take a look at the code to see if I can find anything. Another theory is that it doesn't get a heading at all when not moving, and then it spins to Norht Up. Do you remember if it's always exactly 180 degrees? Or is it always spinning north up at junctions? In any case... I'll have a look.
Thanks for the details Darren. I appreciate it.
Quote from DarrenS on 26.06.2024, 14:44Always 180 degrees (so if I am going NE it will swivel to SW when I stop) - just to confirm it is also not at every junction, just a number of them, enough to be a pain. I'll do some testing over the next couple of weeks and report back. I feel bad for hijacking nick12312's loss of GPS thread with the 'rotation' issue so if I do not see a correlation between the two things I'll kick another another thread for the rotation/swivel with my findings.
Always 180 degrees (so if I am going NE it will swivel to SW when I stop) - just to confirm it is also not at every junction, just a number of them, enough to be a pain. I'll do some testing over the next couple of weeks and report back. I feel bad for hijacking nick12312's loss of GPS thread with the 'rotation' issue so if I do not see a correlation between the two things I'll kick another another thread for the rotation/swivel with my findings.
Quote from Marts on 27.06.2024, 18:56Quote from nick123123 on 23.06.2024, 16:55is it a problem with newer phones ? iPhone 12-15?
I have an iPhone 14 Pro Max. It sits on the Quadlock wireless charger. I've had no issues regarding the GPS (fingers crossed).
Dunno if this helps or not. Might be a problem with your phone itself, maybe?
Image is my setup on the bike. Phone mirrors to the Chigee AIO-5 Lite Carplay unit.
[caption id="attachment_7880" align="alignnone" width="800"]
Iphone 14 Pro Max on a Quadlock wireless charger[/caption]
Quote from nick123123 on 23.06.2024, 16:55is it a problem with newer phones ? iPhone 12-15?
I have an iPhone 14 Pro Max. It sits on the Quadlock wireless charger. I've had no issues regarding the GPS (fingers crossed).
Dunno if this helps or not. Might be a problem with your phone itself, maybe?
Image is my setup on the bike. Phone mirrors to the Chigee AIO-5 Lite Carplay unit.
[caption id="attachment_7880" align="alignnone" width="800"] Iphone 14 Pro Max on a Quadlock wireless charger[/caption]
