Integrate Traffic and Street Information during Navigation
Quote from TheDriver79 on 01.04.2023, 07:00Over the last five days we (2 cars) made a road trip with nearly 1000km length.
Before starting the trip I was planning anything in detail. A route for each day (5 routes overall) with lots of via-points and at least one stop a day.
As I read in another topic, there are already plans to implement the functionality to split one large route into multiple smaller routes to organise trips with more than one day. Please add me to the list of users awaiting this feature.
My biggest „issue“ on our tour however was the missing feature in Scenic Navigation to respect traffic, road works (including closed roads) and some logic to automatically skip via-points when we had to leave the calculated route because of closed roads.
Sometimes automatic routing navigates wrong roads (field roads) or even through private roads - hopefully this wont happen anymore with the next big update.
Beside this my work in Scenic and Navigation was great.
Over the last five days we (2 cars) made a road trip with nearly 1000km length.
Before starting the trip I was planning anything in detail. A route for each day (5 routes overall) with lots of via-points and at least one stop a day.
As I read in another topic, there are already plans to implement the functionality to split one large route into multiple smaller routes to organise trips with more than one day. Please add me to the list of users awaiting this feature.
My biggest „issue“ on our tour however was the missing feature in Scenic Navigation to respect traffic, road works (including closed roads) and some logic to automatically skip via-points when we had to leave the calculated route because of closed roads.
Sometimes automatic routing navigates wrong roads (field roads) or even through private roads - hopefully this wont happen anymore with the next big update.
Beside this my work in Scenic and Navigation was great.
Quote from Guido on 01.04.2023, 07:31I understand. The big update, from the start, will already be able to show traffic and road closures, but routing won't take traffic into account at first. That will be added later.
As for skipping via points... this is possible... I just finished a help article on detour behaviour. Have a look here: https://scenic.app/help/detour-behaviour-when-deviating-from-your-route/
Also... Scenic has a 'Road Block' feature, accessible through the Navigation Menu (big button menu). Perhaps that could be helpful in your situation.
Hope this helps/explains. If not, or if you have other questions, please let me know. Happy to help.
Best regards and ride safe,
Guido
I understand. The big update, from the start, will already be able to show traffic and road closures, but routing won't take traffic into account at first. That will be added later.
As for skipping via points... this is possible... I just finished a help article on detour behaviour. Have a look here: https://scenic.app/help/detour-behaviour-when-deviating-from-your-route/
Also... Scenic has a 'Road Block' feature, accessible through the Navigation Menu (big button menu). Perhaps that could be helpful in your situation.
Hope this helps/explains. If not, or if you have other questions, please let me know. Happy to help.
Best regards and ride safe,
Guido
Quote from TheDriver79 on 01.04.2023, 15:20Thank you so much for the quick reply.
I will habe a look at the „Road Block“ feature in the future and as well check the options for recalculation and auto skip.
There is so much functionality already available and not that easy to find out everything. Thanks for your support and the help article!
Kind regards, Alexander
Thank you so much for the quick reply.
I will habe a look at the „Road Block“ feature in the future and as well check the options for recalculation and auto skip.
There is so much functionality already available and not that easy to find out everything. Thanks for your support and the help article!
Kind regards, Alexander
Quote from Mikestouren on 24.07.2023, 08:35Need to bring this topic up again as in the meanwhile traffic and street information became one of the most important features to me.
On nearly every trip in the last months I was confronted with road closures. Not having this information in the app always forces me to switch to Google Maps (or Apple Maps or similar) to check on where and how long the closure is and where to deviate it.In an area with many streets like southern part of Germany for example, deviations might only be a few minutes and kilometers. Annoying, but not a real problem.
But if you travel in the alps for example, deviations might easily become hours if e.g. a Col is closed. This happend to us on our last trip in the French alps, where our planning crossed the Tour de France route several times.
In the end I had to switch to another app to get to our destination in time.Therefore the question: how is it planned to integrate traffic and street information? Will the time to destination show delay? Will routing calculation stop because of road closures or will an information pop up?
And how long might "added later" be?Sorry for pushing this topic in that way, but I'm really interested in navigating smoothly with Scenic.
Need to bring this topic up again as in the meanwhile traffic and street information became one of the most important features to me.
On nearly every trip in the last months I was confronted with road closures. Not having this information in the app always forces me to switch to Google Maps (or Apple Maps or similar) to check on where and how long the closure is and where to deviate it.
In an area with many streets like southern part of Germany for example, deviations might only be a few minutes and kilometers. Annoying, but not a real problem.
But if you travel in the alps for example, deviations might easily become hours if e.g. a Col is closed. This happend to us on our last trip in the French alps, where our planning crossed the Tour de France route several times.
In the end I had to switch to another app to get to our destination in time.
Therefore the question: how is it planned to integrate traffic and street information? Will the time to destination show delay? Will routing calculation stop because of road closures or will an information pop up?
And how long might "added later" be?
Sorry for pushing this topic in that way, but I'm really interested in navigating smoothly with Scenic.
Quote from Guido on 24.07.2023, 10:40Hi Mike,
I understand the question/feedback. The big update (released in fall this year) can make traffic and road closures visible on the map, but it won't take this into account with route calculations yet. This will come later. How much is later? I'm not giving out dates anymore, unless I'm reasonably sure these can be met. Hope you understand. It won't be this motorcycle season (in the norther hemisphere) though.
Traffic is much more difficult with an app like Scenic than with, for example, Google Maps. Why? For several reasons. For one, traffic and road closure conditions can change between the time of creating/saving the route and the time of riding it. In other words... your route may become different due to traffic. Maybe one would want it to become different because it's faster, but maybe one would prefer to stay on the curry/scenic road because it's nicer. Second... Scenic routes typically have via points and stops (more than normal A to B routes have typically). How should Scenic react if traffic is building up close to where you put a stop or a via point? Do you want to skip that stop or via? Or do you want to go there anyway even though it might mean being stuck in traffic or doing a detour? I guess that depends on how long you would be in traffic, and how important that stop/via is to you. When should Scenic start warning you and give you a choice (interact with screen during riding)? Or should it just decide for you?
I don't need answers to these questions now. It's going to be different for everyone and probably different depending on what ride you are doing (weekend fun ride, a quick dash to the grocery store, etc.). All this is to say that there are scenarios that Scenic needs to account for that regular navigation apps do not.
Hope this explains the difficulty a bit more.
Cheers,
Guido
Hi Mike,
I understand the question/feedback. The big update (released in fall this year) can make traffic and road closures visible on the map, but it won't take this into account with route calculations yet. This will come later. How much is later? I'm not giving out dates anymore, unless I'm reasonably sure these can be met. Hope you understand. It won't be this motorcycle season (in the norther hemisphere) though.
Traffic is much more difficult with an app like Scenic than with, for example, Google Maps. Why? For several reasons. For one, traffic and road closure conditions can change between the time of creating/saving the route and the time of riding it. In other words... your route may become different due to traffic. Maybe one would want it to become different because it's faster, but maybe one would prefer to stay on the curry/scenic road because it's nicer. Second... Scenic routes typically have via points and stops (more than normal A to B routes have typically). How should Scenic react if traffic is building up close to where you put a stop or a via point? Do you want to skip that stop or via? Or do you want to go there anyway even though it might mean being stuck in traffic or doing a detour? I guess that depends on how long you would be in traffic, and how important that stop/via is to you. When should Scenic start warning you and give you a choice (interact with screen during riding)? Or should it just decide for you?
I don't need answers to these questions now. It's going to be different for everyone and probably different depending on what ride you are doing (weekend fun ride, a quick dash to the grocery store, etc.). All this is to say that there are scenarios that Scenic needs to account for that regular navigation apps do not.
Hope this explains the difficulty a bit more.
Cheers,
Guido
Quote from TheDriver79 on 24.07.2023, 11:34The traffic feature would be a huge step forward for Scenic. However, I totally understand the reasons you explained.
Many of my last trips became a little complicated because of road closures. Being able to handle such situations with Scenic in the future would be fantastic.
That being said I‘m patiently waiting for updates and especially the next big update.
Alex
The traffic feature would be a huge step forward for Scenic. However, I totally understand the reasons you explained.
Many of my last trips became a little complicated because of road closures. Being able to handle such situations with Scenic in the future would be fantastic.
That being said I‘m patiently waiting for updates and especially the next big update.
Alex
Quote from Guido on 24.07.2023, 11:47Yes. I understand too. The more feedback I get about this, the more I'm thinking about splitting this up into two subjects. Road closures seem far more important to most compared to traffic. Since road closures are more static, I expect this to be easier to implement than traffic which is far more dynamic and more scenarios to consider. This would mean I could probably get road closure functions available sooner, and traffic perhaps a bit later compared to combined release. Please let me know anyone if you think that's a bad idea.
Yes. I understand too. The more feedback I get about this, the more I'm thinking about splitting this up into two subjects. Road closures seem far more important to most compared to traffic. Since road closures are more static, I expect this to be easier to implement than traffic which is far more dynamic and more scenarios to consider. This would mean I could probably get road closure functions available sooner, and traffic perhaps a bit later compared to combined release. Please let me know anyone if you think that's a bad idea.
Quote from PeteRT on 24.07.2023, 12:34Good idea. Road closures are far more important than traffic for bikes. Just my opinion of cause.
Good idea. Road closures are far more important than traffic for bikes. Just my opinion of cause.
Quote from HDFatboy on 24.07.2023, 13:55Road closures are a much higher priority to me than traffic conditions. Traffic eventually will move, albeit it slowly. A road closure is a different animal.
Road closures are a much higher priority to me than traffic conditions. Traffic eventually will move, albeit it slowly. A road closure is a different animal.
Quote from massi on 24.07.2023, 17:04I too think that road closures mor annoying than traffic conditions.
Personally I use "scenic" to find small, curvy roads in the middle of nowhere 😉 , so it's not very important to me to have traffic conditions in "scenic".
If you have to ride over highways and large roads, you can use something like Google maps, that's the advantage of smartphone routing, you can use special apps for e.g. traffic condition routing.
In my opinion it would be a nice feature to see traffic jam as different colors on the roads, like Google Maps does, so that if you have a planned route, you can see at the day when you start, where traffic problems are and go around them by yourself. As Guido mentionend, I too think, that it's not very useful and also very difficult for "scenic" to pay attention on this while you're planning a route.
Use the brain, Luke.;^)
I too think that road closures mor annoying than traffic conditions.
Personally I use "scenic" to find small, curvy roads in the middle of nowhere 😉 , so it's not very important to me to have traffic conditions in "scenic".
If you have to ride over highways and large roads, you can use something like Google maps, that's the advantage of smartphone routing, you can use special apps for e.g. traffic condition routing.
In my opinion it would be a nice feature to see traffic jam as different colors on the roads, like Google Maps does, so that if you have a planned route, you can see at the day when you start, where traffic problems are and go around them by yourself. As Guido mentionend, I too think, that it's not very useful and also very difficult for "scenic" to pay attention on this while you're planning a route.
Use the brain, Luke.;^)
Quote from mattsz on 24.07.2023, 17:33Quote from Guido on 24.07.2023, 11:47Yes. I understand too. The more feedback I get about this, the more I'm thinking about splitting this up into two subjects. Road closures seem far more important to most compared to traffic. Since road closures are more static, I expect this to be easier to implement than traffic which is far more dynamic and more scenarios to consider. This would mean I could probably get road closure functions available sooner, and traffic perhaps a bit later compared to combined release. Please let me know anyone if you think that's a bad idea.
I know you asked us to let you know if we think it's a bad idea... I don't, but I'm replying anyway to say that I agree with the others here, road closures are a higher priority for me. For that matter, I'm looking forward to the update, hopefully with new and better map data, as the current Here data that covers my local rural area has a lot of mistakes - Scenic likes to route me on roads that join two others on the map, but in fact they're dead-end roads. Google Maps and MapsMe generally know they're dead-ends. I've submitted corrections, but have never seen any changes...
Quote from Guido on 24.07.2023, 11:47Yes. I understand too. The more feedback I get about this, the more I'm thinking about splitting this up into two subjects. Road closures seem far more important to most compared to traffic. Since road closures are more static, I expect this to be easier to implement than traffic which is far more dynamic and more scenarios to consider. This would mean I could probably get road closure functions available sooner, and traffic perhaps a bit later compared to combined release. Please let me know anyone if you think that's a bad idea.
I know you asked us to let you know if we think it's a bad idea... I don't, but I'm replying anyway to say that I agree with the others here, road closures are a higher priority for me. For that matter, I'm looking forward to the update, hopefully with new and better map data, as the current Here data that covers my local rural area has a lot of mistakes - Scenic likes to route me on roads that join two others on the map, but in fact they're dead-end roads. Google Maps and MapsMe generally know they're dead-ends. I've submitted corrections, but have never seen any changes...
Quote from TheDriver79 on 24.07.2023, 23:55Quote from PeteRT on 24.07.2023, 12:34Good idea. Road closures are far more important than traffic for bikes. Just my opinion of cause.
I‘m with all of you, here. Road closures are by far the more important enhancement for Scenic.
However, not everyone is using Scenic to navigate with motobikes but, talking about myself, I’m using it primarily to navigate with my classic car and even using it with my other car when on vacation and looking for nice roads.
Quote from mattsz on 24.07.2023, 17:33Quote from Guido on 24.07.2023, 11:47Yes. I understand too. The more feedback I get about this, the more […]
[…] Google Maps and MapsMe generally know they're dead-ends. I've submitted corrections, but have never seen any changes...
My experiences - especially with Google Maps - are completely different. It navigates me onto bicycle ways and dead end roads without being able to understand it to find a way around/an alternative route.
The biggest issue in Scenic with Here Maps for me are speed limits. 3 of 10 speed limits are wrong…
Alex
Quote from PeteRT on 24.07.2023, 12:34Good idea. Road closures are far more important than traffic for bikes. Just my opinion of cause.
I‘m with all of you, here. Road closures are by far the more important enhancement for Scenic.
However, not everyone is using Scenic to navigate with motobikes but, talking about myself, I’m using it primarily to navigate with my classic car and even using it with my other car when on vacation and looking for nice roads.
Quote from mattsz on 24.07.2023, 17:33Quote from Guido on 24.07.2023, 11:47Yes. I understand too. The more feedback I get about this, the more […]
[…] Google Maps and MapsMe generally know they're dead-ends. I've submitted corrections, but have never seen any changes...
My experiences - especially with Google Maps - are completely different. It navigates me onto bicycle ways and dead end roads without being able to understand it to find a way around/an alternative route.
The biggest issue in Scenic with Here Maps for me are speed limits. 3 of 10 speed limits are wrong…
Alex
Quote from PeteRT on 25.07.2023, 02:29Interesting comments. Sorry Alex I forgot about car enthusiasts who want to use Scenic to plan fun routes. I also agree that a great benefit of app navigation is that you can use more than one for different purposes. Thats way traffic does not seem that important to me. Map accuracy is the most important. The ability to see road closures while planning a route would save a lot of hassle out on the road.
Interesting comments. Sorry Alex I forgot about car enthusiasts who want to use Scenic to plan fun routes. I also agree that a great benefit of app navigation is that you can use more than one for different purposes. Thats way traffic does not seem that important to me. Map accuracy is the most important. The ability to see road closures while planning a route would save a lot of hassle out on the road.
Quote from Mikestouren on 26.07.2023, 10:26Quote from Guido on 24.07.2023, 11:47Yes. I understand too. The more feedback I get about this, the more I'm thinking about splitting this up into two subjects. Road closures seem far more important to most compared to traffic. Since road closures are more static, I expect this to be easier to implement than traffic which is far more dynamic and more scenarios to consider. This would mean I could probably get road closure functions available sooner, and traffic perhaps a bit later compared to combined release. Please let me know anyone if you think that's a bad idea.
That's a very good idea. Biggest issue is with road closures, especially in regions like the alps were deviations are long and more complicated. Traffic is less important.
Quote from Guido on 24.07.2023, 11:47Yes. I understand too. The more feedback I get about this, the more I'm thinking about splitting this up into two subjects. Road closures seem far more important to most compared to traffic. Since road closures are more static, I expect this to be easier to implement than traffic which is far more dynamic and more scenarios to consider. This would mean I could probably get road closure functions available sooner, and traffic perhaps a bit later compared to combined release. Please let me know anyone if you think that's a bad idea.
That's a very good idea. Biggest issue is with road closures, especially in regions like the alps were deviations are long and more complicated. Traffic is less important.
Quote from pe112 on 27.04.2024, 23:36Joining those for whom knowing about blocked roads is by far more important for me than knowing about traffic conditions.
Maybe these two first steps could be helpful for many of us:
- Optionally avoid known blocked roads when calculating a route. As it is already for „toll roads“ or „unpaved roads“
- Issue a warning when navigation is started on a planned route and a section of the route is currently blocked. Maybe show the blocked section and offer to recalculate with „Avoid blocked roads“ (see 1.) on.
For my usage profile (touring the Alps) this would be all I need.
P.S. Thank you for your excellent work on Scenic!
Joining those for whom knowing about blocked roads is by far more important for me than knowing about traffic conditions.
Maybe these two first steps could be helpful for many of us:
- Optionally avoid known blocked roads when calculating a route. As it is already for „toll roads“ or „unpaved roads“
- Issue a warning when navigation is started on a planned route and a section of the route is currently blocked. Maybe show the blocked section and offer to recalculate with „Avoid blocked roads“ (see 1.) on.
For my usage profile (touring the Alps) this would be all I need.
P.S. Thank you for your excellent work on Scenic!
