Direction changes randomly at stop lights.
Quote from Mikeyman67 on 27.07.2024, 18:22I have been noticing that when tracking a ride and coming to a stoplight, the direction of the map changes to look like I am heading back the way I came. Once I start rolling again it picks up in the proper direction. This is very annoying and I don't remember it happening before. The phone is mounted directly in sight of the sky right behind my windscreen. Not sure if I have a setting wrong or if there is something wrong with the phone itself.
I have been noticing that when tracking a ride and coming to a stoplight, the direction of the map changes to look like I am heading back the way I came. Once I start rolling again it picks up in the proper direction. This is very annoying and I don't remember it happening before. The phone is mounted directly in sight of the sky right behind my windscreen. Not sure if I have a setting wrong or if there is something wrong with the phone itself.
Quote from DarrenS on 28.07.2024, 02:08I get this too a lot of times when I stop and have been trying to find a pattern.
Difference for me is I am on carplay, but have tried with the phone and every orientation, and when the direction does change it is ALWAYS 180 degrees (so if I am going W, it moves E)
I have also done some testing with Apple Maps, Google Maps, and Organic Maps. With all three of those apps, the vehicle icons changes to show they are NOT getting active GPS movement (so cannot determine direction of travel), but with them, the icon is the only change, the map stays in the direction you were heading when stopped.
So, in my mind, Scenic really needs to work the same as the other three apps in this case, and when it stops detecting movement/cannot get heading it does not redirect the map orientation but keeps it as it was until the vehicle moves again.
As a slight aside, I have also noticed I do not need to come to a complete stop for it to occur, sometimes (rarely) a slow down in traffic an cause it (and again the other three apps react by not re-orientating)
I get this too a lot of times when I stop and have been trying to find a pattern.
Difference for me is I am on carplay, but have tried with the phone and every orientation, and when the direction does change it is ALWAYS 180 degrees (so if I am going W, it moves E)
I have also done some testing with Apple Maps, Google Maps, and Organic Maps. With all three of those apps, the vehicle icons changes to show they are NOT getting active GPS movement (so cannot determine direction of travel), but with them, the icon is the only change, the map stays in the direction you were heading when stopped.
So, in my mind, Scenic really needs to work the same as the other three apps in this case, and when it stops detecting movement/cannot get heading it does not redirect the map orientation but keeps it as it was until the vehicle moves again.
As a slight aside, I have also noticed I do not need to come to a complete stop for it to occur, sometimes (rarely) a slow down in traffic an cause it (and again the other three apps react by not re-orientating)
Quote from Mikeyman67 on 28.07.2024, 09:50I haven't done exhaustive if/when testing with other maps (Apple, Google, Waze etc)...I plan to put my phone up in the car at eye level to see when it does its thing.
I have a CarPlay unit that I run on my bike from time to time (Ricoel C5 BMW mount) that works OK. It too has its quirks. I also have a Garmin XT that is nice enough...save for the illogical routing decisions and its ability to mangle my carefully curated routes. I am a hopeless tinkerer by nature. My bike is always a work in progress.
I haven't done exhaustive if/when testing with other maps (Apple, Google, Waze etc)...I plan to put my phone up in the car at eye level to see when it does its thing.
I have a CarPlay unit that I run on my bike from time to time (Ricoel C5 BMW mount) that works OK. It too has its quirks. I also have a Garmin XT that is nice enough...save for the illogical routing decisions and its ability to mangle my carefully curated routes. I am a hopeless tinkerer by nature. My bike is always a work in progress.
Quote from Mikeyman67 on 29.07.2024, 05:47A few tries with other GPS apps (Waze, Apple Maps, MRA and Google) and none exhibit the 'flopping' that I am seeing regularly with Scenic. Hoping that maybe this is a bug and easily fixed. The heading should not flip 180 degrees at a stop. This makes choosing the next turn/action much harder.
A few tries with other GPS apps (Waze, Apple Maps, MRA and Google) and none exhibit the 'flopping' that I am seeing regularly with Scenic. Hoping that maybe this is a bug and easily fixed. The heading should not flip 180 degrees at a stop. This makes choosing the next turn/action much harder.
Quote from Guido on 29.07.2024, 08:36Hi Guys,
I understand the difficulty. I checked the code regarding this, and so far have not found anything that could have caused this in my (Scenic) code. I'll keep looking, though. It might be that the bug is in the map framework code.
At the moment, an update is already awaiting Apple approval, so a fix won't be in this update, but I will try to get it fixed in the next update.
Best regards,
Guido
Hi Guys,
I understand the difficulty. I checked the code regarding this, and so far have not found anything that could have caused this in my (Scenic) code. I'll keep looking, though. It might be that the bug is in the map framework code.
At the moment, an update is already awaiting Apple approval, so a fix won't be in this update, but I will try to get it fixed in the next update.
Best regards,
Guido
Quote from Mikeyman67 on 01.08.2024, 18:38Thanks Guido:
I can say it only seems to do this to me when I am 'just tracking'. In the same situation if I am following a route, it appears to stay facing the same direction as when I stopped.
Not sure if that helps narrow down the issue.
Thanks Guido:
I can say it only seems to do this to me when I am 'just tracking'. In the same situation if I am following a route, it appears to stay facing the same direction as when I stopped.
Not sure if that helps narrow down the issue.
Quote from Guido on 01.08.2024, 19:19Thanks Mike. That's very helpful. I already suspected that, otherwise I would have gotten way more feedback on this. Meanwhile I've looked into this and the error seems to be in the HERE map framework that Scenic uses. I'll check if I can find a workaround for this. If not, then I'm afraid this will take a bit longer as I need to submit a ticket to HERE maps.
Thanks Mike. That's very helpful. I already suspected that, otherwise I would have gotten way more feedback on this. Meanwhile I've looked into this and the error seems to be in the HERE map framework that Scenic uses. I'll check if I can find a workaround for this. If not, then I'm afraid this will take a bit longer as I need to submit a ticket to HERE maps.
Quote from Guido on 12.08.2024, 11:58Hi Guys... looking into this again. Could you all tell me:
- What zoom mode are you using? (Manual, Turn based or Speed based)? (If turn based, and tracking only, it will fall back to speed based)
- What perspective are you using (2D or 3D)
You can see this in the navigation (big button) menu.
Hi Guys... looking into this again. Could you all tell me:
- What zoom mode are you using? (Manual, Turn based or Speed based)? (If turn based, and tracking only, it will fall back to speed based)
- What perspective are you using (2D or 3D)
You can see this in the navigation (big button) menu.
Quote from Mikeyman67 on 12.08.2024, 12:20Mine is manual (I have a Wunderlinq) and 3d perspective
Mine is manual (I have a Wunderlinq) and 3d perspective
Quote from Guido on 12.08.2024, 13:16So...over the last few days I paid special attention to this when I was driving and riding around. I tried with the different zoom settings and different perspectives, CarPlay and no CarPlay, but I can't really reproduce the issue. That (1) makes debugging and fixing very difficult, and (2) suggests that this is not happening for everyone.
One thing I did notice.... when I stop on, or very close to a junction, sometimes (maybe like 20% of the time), the map starts rotating in the direction of one of the streets on the junction, sometimes it rotates a few times, rotating from one street to the other street on that junction. It's like it's guessing which street you are going to next. But for me, it was always in the direction of one of the roads, and never 180 degrees.
When I stop where there is no junction, it never rotated.
So.... my working-assumption at this moment is that, if the heading is not known, or not accurate enough, it tries to "guess" based on the streets around your current location. And, in your cases (where it rotates 180 degrees) it guesses you are on the same street, but going the other way. Why the 180 degrees is happening to you and not to me could have something to do with the accuracy of the GPS receiver in your phone, but that's just a guess.
What I do know for sure now, is that this is happening inside the HERE map framework. The HERE map framework takes the coordinates that it gets from iOS (which include speed, and heading info), the route you are following (if any), and the streets around your current location, and based on that, it determines the map rotation angle. Unfortunately, I do not have access to this code. It's a black box, so I'm not even sure what the framework is doing exactly. I can't filter out GPS updates with less accuracy either because then the location on the map wouldn't move for those GPS updates.
I will have to file a ticket with HERE to get this resolved, and that will take a while.
Having said that, I'm also working on a big update for October that will change a lot, and will give me deeper access to this.
For now, there is one more thing you could possible try....
This morning, I tried one more thing that seemed to have some kind of an effect. I turned ON 'extrapolate position' in Settings > Finetuning (it's off by default). The rotating at junctions seemed to get a little worse, but again, only at junctions and never 180 degrees.So, if you guys turned on 'extrapolate postion', could you try turning this off again? See if it gets any better?
So...over the last few days I paid special attention to this when I was driving and riding around. I tried with the different zoom settings and different perspectives, CarPlay and no CarPlay, but I can't really reproduce the issue. That (1) makes debugging and fixing very difficult, and (2) suggests that this is not happening for everyone.
One thing I did notice.... when I stop on, or very close to a junction, sometimes (maybe like 20% of the time), the map starts rotating in the direction of one of the streets on the junction, sometimes it rotates a few times, rotating from one street to the other street on that junction. It's like it's guessing which street you are going to next. But for me, it was always in the direction of one of the roads, and never 180 degrees.
When I stop where there is no junction, it never rotated.
So.... my working-assumption at this moment is that, if the heading is not known, or not accurate enough, it tries to "guess" based on the streets around your current location. And, in your cases (where it rotates 180 degrees) it guesses you are on the same street, but going the other way. Why the 180 degrees is happening to you and not to me could have something to do with the accuracy of the GPS receiver in your phone, but that's just a guess.
What I do know for sure now, is that this is happening inside the HERE map framework. The HERE map framework takes the coordinates that it gets from iOS (which include speed, and heading info), the route you are following (if any), and the streets around your current location, and based on that, it determines the map rotation angle. Unfortunately, I do not have access to this code. It's a black box, so I'm not even sure what the framework is doing exactly. I can't filter out GPS updates with less accuracy either because then the location on the map wouldn't move for those GPS updates.
I will have to file a ticket with HERE to get this resolved, and that will take a while.
Having said that, I'm also working on a big update for October that will change a lot, and will give me deeper access to this.
For now, there is one more thing you could possible try....
This morning, I tried one more thing that seemed to have some kind of an effect. I turned ON 'extrapolate position' in Settings > Finetuning (it's off by default). The rotating at junctions seemed to get a little worse, but again, only at junctions and never 180 degrees.
So, if you guys turned on 'extrapolate postion', could you try turning this off again? See if it gets any better?
Quote from DarrenS on 12.08.2024, 13:483D and Turn Based
Extrapolation is off.
It's real shame I cannot record it happening, as it happens so often.
Not sure about the junctions thing. I can say I remember it happening the other week when I was in start-stop traffic due to road works, but the nearest junction was probably a good half mile away. That was also the time I started flipping via google and Apple Maps and neither of those were rotating but keeping the current direction.
3D and Turn Based
Extrapolation is off.
It's real shame I cannot record it happening, as it happens so often.
Not sure about the junctions thing. I can say I remember it happening the other week when I was in start-stop traffic due to road works, but the nearest junction was probably a good half mile away. That was also the time I started flipping via google and Apple Maps and neither of those were rotating but keeping the current direction.
Quote from Guido on 12.08.2024, 13:51I understand. Google and Apple will use different logic to deal with unknown or inaccurate heading information from the GPS coordinates. If I had access to this code inside the HERE framework, I could fix it, but I don't.
I understand. Google and Apple will use different logic to deal with unknown or inaccurate heading information from the GPS coordinates. If I had access to this code inside the HERE framework, I could fix it, but I don't.
Quote from Guido on 12.08.2024, 13:58The only other thing that you could try, but I believe some of you already tried that, is to put your iphone in a more flat position so that the compass gets better readings. The location data that iOS gives to apps is a blend of the sensors in your iPhone (GPS receiver, Gyroscope and compass). Then again, for me that didn't seem to make a difference. In my car I chuck my iPhone in the center console in any position that it falls at. On my motorcycle I have it on a mount on my handlebars pointing towards my face, so probably around 35 - 45 degrees from vertical/upright.
The only other thing that you could try, but I believe some of you already tried that, is to put your iphone in a more flat position so that the compass gets better readings. The location data that iOS gives to apps is a blend of the sensors in your iPhone (GPS receiver, Gyroscope and compass). Then again, for me that didn't seem to make a difference. In my car I chuck my iPhone in the center console in any position that it falls at. On my motorcycle I have it on a mount on my handlebars pointing towards my face, so probably around 35 - 45 degrees from vertical/upright.
Quote from DarrenS on 12.08.2024, 14:04Yeah afraid I ran out of phone positions. Tried it flat in tank back in all 4 compass positions plus screen and screen down. Also same with vertical in pocket - no change.
One thing I never have is the phone actually mounted.
Understand it will take time to fix as it is a here issue. At the moment I can use apple or google when I know it is happening and I am in a place I am not familiar with. As I mentioned if it happens on the straight with no junctions then you can just leave scenic until you start again, but if you are at a junction, or even worse a roundabout in a strange place you need to be able to see where you are going.
I find my 'work around' at the moment is to use scenic for track recording and for main viewing (maybe with follow the line), but I do not use it for navigating, instead I use google or apple. That way when the issue does occur it is a quick flick between apps on CarPlay and you can see the route on the other app. Then once you are off again flip the screen back to scenic.
Yeah afraid I ran out of phone positions. Tried it flat in tank back in all 4 compass positions plus screen and screen down. Also same with vertical in pocket - no change.
One thing I never have is the phone actually mounted.
Understand it will take time to fix as it is a here issue. At the moment I can use apple or google when I know it is happening and I am in a place I am not familiar with. As I mentioned if it happens on the straight with no junctions then you can just leave scenic until you start again, but if you are at a junction, or even worse a roundabout in a strange place you need to be able to see where you are going.
I find my 'work around' at the moment is to use scenic for track recording and for main viewing (maybe with follow the line), but I do not use it for navigating, instead I use google or apple. That way when the issue does occur it is a quick flick between apps on CarPlay and you can see the route on the other app. Then once you are off again flip the screen back to scenic.
Quote from Guido on 12.08.2024, 14:10This doesn't happen when navigating a route with Scenic. At least, not that I know of.
When navigating a route, the logic seems to work OK, taking the direction of the route and your position on the route into account when determining the map rotation.
This doesn't happen when navigating a route with Scenic. At least, not that I know of.
When navigating a route, the logic seems to work OK, taking the direction of the route and your position on the route into account when determining the map rotation.
Quote from Mikeyman67 on 12.08.2024, 14:34Confirmed. This only happens when 'just tracking' and when running an actual route/track its fine.
Confirmed. This only happens when 'just tracking' and when running an actual route/track its fine.
Quote from 0709 on 13.08.2024, 00:40Below a speed threshold, Locus map shows the map direction by the compass.
Provided you calibrate the compass and your device is not set up near iron.
It show you the riding direction by turning the handlebar.
https://youtu.be/JwXrtD8mYD0
Below a speed threshold, Locus map shows the map direction by the compass.
Provided you calibrate the compass and your device is not set up near iron.
It show you the riding direction by turning the handlebar.
Quote from GHJ on 13.08.2024, 01:18Just a thought. Could it be wireless/inductive charging?
(I've seen my map spin while stationary with a wired charger.)
Just a thought. Could it be wireless/inductive charging?
(I've seen my map spin while stationary with a wired charger.)
Quote from 0709 on 13.08.2024, 01:43A workaround is to show only a short record "tracktail" for better orientation
A workaround is to show only a short record "tracktail" for better orientation
